Urgent! Object to the scrapping of the congestion charge extension

The form for objecting has three boxes:
!.Please use this space to provide your views on the proposed removal of the Western Extension

1. Please use this space to give us your views on the other proposed Congestion Charge changes

2. Please use this space to provide any other comments you may have

Here are my objections, interested to here your comments....

1. It's disastrous to remove the Western Extension, it's a giant leap backwards, please don't do this and please try and encourage less use of motorised transport in the Capitol.

2. Good to increase the congestion charge, well overdue.

The other proposals (Replacing the Alternative Fuel discount with a new Greener Vehicle discount
Making changes to the Electric Vehicle discount
Introducing a new registration charge for 9+ seated vehicles) are all useful in helping people to value the ecological impact of their transport choices when considering investing in motorised transport, but in effect just give a way forward for them to increase the vehicle congestion, I think these are all valid and useful measures for London but should be separate from and unrelated to the congestion charge, we need to implement changes that will cause a modal shift away from personal motorised transport not to more personal motorised transport with a different fuel or bigger cars or ones that require more electricity to be generated...
So in short let's increase the congestion charge and have less congestion.

1. The introduction of the congestion charge was a bold and important move in one of the most influential cities on the planet, in order for it to maintain any effectiveness it must at least keep up with if not excede inflation to encourage changes in behaviour and attitudes.
   

.

Graham, unfortunately poor air quality is a very widespread cause of cancer (and I daresay you would accept that people can die from this sort of small inconvenience), respiratory disease and other illnesses, e.g. the very high rate of asthma in London. London's air quality is said to be the worst in Europe. It is simply established beyond any doubt that it is a very big problem.

I suffer from hayfever, shall we start cutting down all the trees and chopping the heads of daffodils to help the hayfever sufferers?

Citrozine FTW

Originally Posted by Digger
I've put this in a new thread because Vee Vee's thread is from the past and people may not realise that we can have imput now.

Thanks to Cameleon for this:

removal of the congestion charge extension is going ahead. will result in more congestion, more pollution, more CO2, less cycling, less walking - according to tfl..

you can object here, before august 2nd..

Link here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cong...ing/15520.aspx

OP

Why?

'cause i'm a planet-raping free market capitalist cretin ;)

Oddly enough, on this ocassion, I agree with Pistantor 100%.

Are we really so selfish as cyclists, that only OUR concerns matter? Don't you people care about small businesses? I do.

And as for Kensington and Chelsea not having small business, that could only be said by someone looking at the readings of their radio telescope from another solar system.

Kensington, Chelsea, Notting Hill, Fulham, are all full of hundreds, if not thousands of small business - from specialist book shops, to furniture makers and restorers, to coffee and cake shops. Do you expect their customers to arrive and leave by bicycle......with a fucking sofa?

Please. You people are unbelievable.

I commute ONLY by bike, unless both my bikes are being repaired, or the snow is too heavy to cycle in. Daily I cycle in London, and always from Lower Sydenham to Farringdon (and back), if its to do with work, or to any other part of London if its to do with anything else. Oh yes, if I'm dressed up to go out to somewhere special, this another ocassion when I will take public transport. I don't own a car, and I don't want to. But to put our needs above that of small businesses and their customers, smacks of NIMBYism.

I'm totally against the proposal. We should all try to responsibly share the same small spaces.

We have the right to ride in a safe environment, and others have the right to not be penalised for taking a couple friends to a bookshop, when having to drive in from out of London (for example).

This

Fuck

I suffer from hayfever, shall we start cutting down all the trees and chopping the heads of daffodils to help the hayfever sufferers?

Citrozine FTW

exactly ..

Oddly enough, on this ocassion, I agree with Pistantor 100%.

Are we really so selfish as cyclists, that only OUR concerns matter? Don't you people care about small businesses? I do.

And as for Kensington and Chelsea not having small business, that could only be said by someone looking at the readings of their radio telescope from another solar system.

Kensington, Chelsea, Notting Hill, Fulham, are all full of hundreds, if not thousands of small business - from specialist book shops, to furniture makers and restorers, to coffee and cake shops. Do you expect their customers to arrive and leave by bicycle......with a fucking sofa?

Please. You people are unbelievable.

I commute ONLY by bike, unless both my bikes are being repaired, or the snow is too heavy to cycle in. Daily I cycle in London, and always from Lower Sydenham to Farringdon (and back), if its to do with work, or to any other part of London if its to do with anything else. Oh yes, if I'm dressed up to go out to somewhere special, this another ocassion when I will take public transport. I don't own a car, and I don't want to. But to put our needs above that of small businesses and their customers, smacks of NIMBYism.

I'm totally against the proposal. We should all try to responsibly share the same small spaces.

We have the right to ride in a safe environment, and others have the right to not be penalised for taking a couple friends to a bookshop, when having to drive in from out of London (for example).

totally agree.

look at the whole thing objectively.

'cause i'm a planet-raping free market capitalist cretin ;)
At least you admit it.

Well, when you put it like that .. lol. But yeah, essentially. Just sayin', on balance, the needs of bike riders and environmentalists come pretty far after the needs of small businesses to start making money again. They've been hit hard by this extension, and the reduction in consumer spending.

That's because of the mistake in the scheme of not separating the zones. What small businesses really want is to retain the zone, but make it a different rate to stop people taking longer journeys by car. Small businesses, by the way, get most of their trade from people walking and cycling to their shops.

It's a bit like the argument that we should have specific hours for HGV's on our roads. It's not a viable plan. The economy should come first.
This is a fairly meaningless statement as it ignores that 'the economy' is not one fixed, unalterable thing. The word is made from the Greek oikos/oikia (house/household) plus nomos (convention/law) and essentially means only 'the convention of running a household', applied to entities of varying sizes, including states or the whole world. Economies are merely based on convention, some completely nonsensical, such as the artificially-created reliance on road haulage as the primary means of distributing goods inside the country, or importing/exporting goods from/to as far away as China. All of this can be changed given the political will, and schemes such as specific hours for HGVs (with necessary exceptions) are entirely viable. They're low-hanging fruit and not even particularly ambitious.

I suffer from hayfever, shall we start cutting down all the trees and chopping the heads of daffodils to help the hayfever sufferers?

Citrozine FTW

Straw man argument. :)

hopes Pisti doesn't get hayfever from straw

At least you admit it.

He's probably lying. After all, he's a free market capitalist cretin. Hang on, is he or isn't he ... ?

Straw man argument. :)

hopes Pisti doesn't get hayfever from straw

I get hayfever from the poor air

is this about congestion or air quality? because if it's about air quality then I think making all public transport and commercial vehicles hybrid/electric would do more. if it's about congestion i dont really care as i can ride past gridlocked traffic even easier

I'm not sure about this small bussinsess angle.

Is there any evidence of small business suffering inside the old congestion charge zone?
What was the level of this suffering?
If not what is diffrent about the new zone?
Is there any evidence of some small businesses benefiting from the CC?
How does that number compare to the number of small businesses suffering? i.e what's the net effect?
Can any of the problems encountered by small businesses in the original congestion charge zone be removed or minimised?

Done. forwarded to xxxx contacts.

• I'm pro congestion charge as an inner city resident, not as a cyclist.

• I'd like to see more 'park and ride' schemes (ride applying to public transport as much as bikes), situated around stations in the lower populated industrial wastelands that surround the city.

• I think businesses selling large goods (like sofas) should have some form of exemption if they're based in the capital, but not so much those based outside trying to deliver here. Support your local businesses etc.

• I'm sure there have been more recent cases where increases in the prevalence of asthma have correlated with increased urban congestion (Greenwich?), but I'm not ignoring other environmental contributors (like dodgy housing stock).

^Greenwich.

• I'm pro congestion charge as an inner city resident, not as a cyclist.

• I'd like to see more 'park and ride' schemes (ride applying to public transport as much as bikes), situated around stations in the lower populated industrial wastelands that surround the city.

• I think businesses selling large goods (like sofas) should have some form of exemption if they're based in the capital, but not so much those based outside trying to deliver here. Support your local businesses etc.

• I'm sure there have been more recent cases where increases in the prevalence of asthma have correlated with increased urban congestion (Greenwich?), but I'm not ignoring other environmental contributors (like dodgy housing stock).

Some good points. Loads of out commuters drive their cars into London from the 'burbs, dump their cars near a tube(outside the congestion charge) then pick up their motors after work. Happened on various roads I've lived in over the years

I've always dreamt of a situation where the M25 was turned into the ultimate park&ride carpark. There are days when you'd be forgiven for thinking it was already the case.

@bmmf
Solutions take vision
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/1999/03/13/the-severed-thumb/
but often dont get any applied
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2009/04/07/the-biggest-weirdest-rip-off-yet/

That's because of the mistake in the scheme of not separating the zones. What small businesses really want is to retain the zone, but make it a different rate to stop people taking longer journeys by car. Small businesses, by the way, get most of their trade from people walking and cycling to their shops.

This is a fairly meaningless statement as it ignores that 'the economy' is not one fixed, unalterable thing. The word is made from the Greek oikos/oikia (house/household) plus nomos (convention/law) and essentially means only 'the convention of running a household', applied to entities of varying sizes, including states or the whole world. Economies are merely based on convention, some completely nonsensical, such as the artificially-created reliance on road haulage as the primary means of distributing goods inside the country, or importing/exporting goods from/to as far away as China. All of this can be changed given the political will, and schemes such as specific hours for HGVs (with necessary exceptions) are entirely viable. They're low-hanging fruit and not even particularly ambitious.

Idealistic. The 'political will' you mention requires multi-national co-operation and agreement - one nation implementing a set of plans like that will only lead to failure. We will be left unable to compete in an increasingly global marketplace. That co-operation does not yet exist in any realistic way. Look what happened at the Copenhagen climate summit last year. Until every country can agree to proper reductions in C02 emissions, the efforts of the UK will be pretty meaningless, given our population. We can't introduce levys on bankers' earnings unless everyone else does it too. So for the time being, we just can't afford to introduce green initiatives with the premise being it'll increase quality-of-life, at least not beyond a few token gestures like the cycling super highway and tax relief for electric vehicles and what not .. when it comes down to it, we don't have the societal or financial infrastructure to make any real, proper changes. There will be so many people that will lose their jobs, and there will not be an equivalent amount of jobs for them to replace them in the green sector.

@bmmf
Solutions take vision
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/1999/03/13/the-severed-thumb/
but often dont get any applied
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2009/04/07/the-biggest-weirdest-rip-off-yet/

That's cheered me right up :/

Idealistic. The 'political will' you mention requires multi-national co-operation and agreement - one nation implementing a set of plans like that will only lead to failure. We will be left unable to compete in an increasingly global marketplace. That co-operation does not yet exist in any realistic way. Look what happened at the Copenhagen climate summit last year. Until every country can agree to proper reductions in C02 emissions, the efforts of the UK will be pretty meaningless, given our population. We can't introduce levys on bankers' earnings unless everyone else does it too. So for the time being, we just can't afford to introduce green initiatives with the premise being it'll increase quality-of-life, at least not beyond a few token gestures like the cycling super highway and tax relief for electric vehicles and what not .. when it comes down to it, we don't have the societal or financial infrastructure to make any real, proper changes. There will be so many people that will lose their jobs, and there will not be an equivalent amount of jobs for them to replace them in the green sector.

Idealists thought that the extension to Heathrow would be quite shit too,
Look what happened there.

I'm supposed to be busy at work and don't have time to read the articles at the moment, so apologies if this is covered but I'm generally curious because I don't know.

Can anyone tell me what the congestion charge funds go to? Is it specific projects that help reduce congestion and the impact it has or does it just go into the great big largesse pot to be used by MPs claiming dubious exemptions?

some here, 10% of TFL income in 2007 was from the charge, supposd to be ploughed back into transport initiatives
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-big-question-has-the-congestion-charge-been-effective-in-reducing-londons-traffic-781505.html