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ow about asking our wonderful government why they are only now trialing ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine rather than making such ridiculous sweeping statements.
Thats not true though is it? At least with regard to hydroxychloroquine. Successive randomised controlled trials have shown that hydroxychloroquine does not improve Covid outcomes and its only right wing media that is amplifying the results of dubious lower standard trials that claim otherwise.
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Good summary of the background to the politically weaponised hydroxychloroquine misinformation that is knocking about:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/scicheck-no-new-revelation-on-hydroxychloroquine-and-covid-19/
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I think I don't get the objections at this stage; AZ and mRNA have been trialled in real life on millions of people now.
I think the argument that is commonly used against this is that in normal times, a new vaccine would still be 3+ years away from being approved for small scale clinical trials. Being in the arms of hundreds of millions of people for a few months is not the same as the thick end of a decade of cautious and progressively larger clinical trials.
The fact remains though that any unidentified side effects of the vaccines are very unlikely to be worse than not taking the vaccine...which is why I assume most people are happy to have them. Including me. Its still a (very low risk) gamble though.
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They did release the data.
Article follows.
"No clinical benefit from use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised patients with COVID-19"
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People are very capable of mental gymnastics when it comes to risk assessing things they don't understand.
If you're nervous about potential side effects, what do you do? You probably go on the internet and look up vaccine safety and examples of vaccine disasters. If you do that you'll see articles about UK, Finland and Sweden seeing neurological damage to children who received the 2009 seasonal flu vaccine...articles about the 1955 Polio vaccine disaster in the USA which left 40,000 children sick and 200 children paralysed. There have been other vaccine accidents in recent years, all over the world. In some cases these were vaccines that had very long trial phases.
The reality is that even in this headline cases we're talking about tens or hundreds of serious adverse effects out of millions of vaccine doses with the exception of the US Polio incident that was closer to 1 in 1000.
Most people can't comprehend huge numbers and find it hard to quantify risks. All they see is true stories about vaccine side effects. These are the seeds that lead to refusal to have a vaccine and also feed into the conspiracy theories we hear about.
Once again, not trying to argue that the vaccines aren't safe, just that I understand how people can convince themselves that they arent.
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I admire your tolerance of these nuggets.
I'm not tolerating it. It drives me crazy. Knowing when you don't understand something and then deferring to expert opinion is a crucial life skill that many people do not possess.
Worried that the Covid vaccine is unsafe? Talk about your concerns to somebody better informed than yourself to make sure you're not making a mistake!
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In ten years time, when we look back on this, those who did their bit will remember very well who the mask whiners, conspiracy peddlers and âvaccine hesitantâ were.
No they won't. They can't even remember the wrongs the Tory party have cast in them over a 18 month period. Fuck, put a football match on and all is forgotten.
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From my understanding, the 3+ years was shortened to 1 year by everyone prioritizing to get admin hurdles removed / adding more funding and resources.
Fair enough months is not 10 years.
There are far far more people getting vaccinations in those months than you'd get with clinical trials over 10 years though?
There might be some strange very long term side effects that pop up in 10 years perhaps, that's fair.
AZ is a pretty standard viral vector, with mRNA yeah maybe it's possible?
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People are very capable of mental gymnastics when it comes to risk assessing things they don't understand.
My point, though, is that the vaccines are safer than Covid. I donât think thatâs remotely controversial except on the most lunatic of fringes.
The âvaccine hesitancyâ creeps in when people start making triangulations about their own personal risk balance, ignoring that vaccines arenât just about individual outcomes - they are about the population acting together to defeat a pathogen. About acting collectively to protect the weakest in society. My derision is for those who refuse to accept a degree of personal risk in order to defeat a common threat. Itâs not that theyâre poorly informed, itâs that theyâre selfish.
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vaccines are safer than Covid
If this statement is an absolute, why aren't they vaccinating all groups?
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My point, though, is that the vaccines are safer than Covid. I donât think thatâs remotely controversial except on the most lunatic of fringes.
I'd be interested to know what proportion of people actually believe that Covid is dangerous. I'd hope that it is very low but some of the stuff I've seen on social media recently really makes you think. At very least there is a small but loud minority who believe that Covid is a hoax or no worse than the flu.
Itâs not that theyâre poorly informed, itâs that theyâre selfish.
This is why I think the gov should have put more of an effort into "marketing" the vaccine as for the safety of your friends and family rather than personal safety. I don't think the messaging has been particularly strong beyond simply asking people to have the jabs.
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The âvaccine hesitancyâ creeps in when people start making triangulations about their own personal risk balance, ignoring that vaccines arenât about individual outcomes - they are about the population acting together to defeat a pathogen. About acting collectively to protect the weakest in society.
You're surprised after years of austerity, selling off council housing, hatred towards immigration and generally trampling over the unfortunate that people decide to take the "I'm alright, Jack" line?
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I think we also have to be realistic about the fact that there are lot of people out there who genuinely do not understand the goals of the vaccines and how it helps others. I've met people who do not even understand what a vaccine is supposed to do. Not everybody understands the world around them as well as this predominantly white middle class echo chamber and I think its wrong to assume that those who have different views to us are knowingly selfish.
I've even met people recently who didn't know that Covid affects older people more than younger people. Some people do not read and are not inquisitive or have untrained logical processes. They rely on their friendship groups for their knowledge. Empathy itself is a form of emotional intelligence that many people simply do not possess.
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First time for me, but fair enough.
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Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19
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I think I don't get the objections at this stage; AZ and mRNA have been trialled in real life on millions of people now.
AZ: Miniscule bloot clot disk, NHS has treatment protocol
Pfizer mRNA Miniscule risk of heart lining inflammation.
Covid: Death rate may not be so bad if you are under 0 but enjoy your long covid ... 2 million suffers in the UK alone.
At this stage of vaccination I can't help but wonder when real life data is good enough to stop worrying about "emergency authorisation"
Diseases are fate (sort of, I'm simplifying but many seem to want to see it that way) vaccination is an active choice. I think this "young people don't die let's unlock" really doesn't help... and perhaps if you are younger you feel invincible.
If anything I want Pfizer next as AZ is a ballicks of feeling crap for 2 days for mme though that may be my bad tempered innate immune systemđ