Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

That should make cases go down.

Anonymous user posting an article from unherd.com

Yeah, I'm definitely giving that equal weight to The Lancet. Sure.

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Please tell me how a double blind study of masks and covid transmission would get past an ethics committee.

Floating an idea: recruiting disciplined layperson mask wearers who don’t use medical grade masks; assigning group A masks that are N95 equivalent; assigning group B masks that are less effective but still better than non-medical masks; assigning group C masks that aren’t medical grade but no worse than what they normally wear.

IMO it stands an ethical chance because it doesn’t put the participants at increased risk of physical harm; potential psychological harm can be controlled for, eg, by explaining that some masks are better than others but none are worse than what they normally wear, and to take due care. The outcome could save millions of lives without putting the participants in harm’s way.

The study would hopefully determine a relation between respiratory filtration and Covid infection rates: higher filtration should result in fewer cases if masks are indeed effective. If medical grade masks are effective but non-medical grade weren’t, then the usefulness of masks is still established and it becomes a matter of filtration levels.

If the three groups are given different types of masks it's hardly double blind, is it? It's not even single blind.

The masks would look and feel identical. Not impossible to do, by any means.

To ensure the masks were used appropriately, participants would be instructed on their use. To keep it blind, there would also be 3 groups of instructors.

Was refusing the vaccine

Do you know why? By no means casting judgement, at all, I am genuinely curious as I've heard the same of other young people and I haven't heard any reason. There are a lot of vaccine hesitancies I sympathise with but I don't get this one. Maybe it's that young people feel invincible.

Goes without saying, hope he feels better soon.

Anonymous user posting an article from unherd.com

On the same page they have links to 'The transgender lobby wants to rewrite the law' and a Julie Burchill article.

Yep.

One opinion I heard recently from a local 20 something I was chatting to was basically

"We were told the vaccines would stop Covid but people are still getting it so what's the point?"

The primary reasoning I've heard from vaccine-refusing young people is along the lines of "covid doesn't really impact us and the vaccine is unproven/untested so why would I take that risk?"

I've heard that more generally (not restricted to young people) but something about it doesn't hang together. If they're not concerned about covid then why would they be concerned about the vaccine? There must be something more to it on a psychological level than them not wanting an "untested" vaccine. Also, I tend to hear it from people hoovering up marching powder or inhaling processed meat, the irony of which appears to be totally lost on them.

TBH I have no idea... Probably cuz he thought he knew better, classic young person hubris/stupidity...

But there's so much noise flying around it's no surprise kids are getting confused...

I don't want to rain on the parade, but this will obviously cause a spike in infections:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/08/its-beautiful-its-unbelievable-england-win-sparks-celebrations-across-the-country

It's gonna be a calamity, Oli... Good luck, everyone...

Its not just young kids and 5g enthusiasts questioning whether they should take the vaccine. Theres plenty of Doctors, scientists, and even one of the inventors of MRNA tech who are questioning such a wide scale rollout of something that has only gained emergency use authorisation. We're not talking about huffing a dodgy line of cut Coke here. We are talking about something completely new to Clinical trial.
At the end of the day you can't untake this vaccine but you can decide to have it later down the line once the clinical trials are fully concluded.
When you stop looking at vaccines relative risk reduction and start looking at the absolute risk vs a complete unknown it doesn't become such a clear cut argument.

Tinfoil tat firmly taped on.

I'm quite sympathetic towards this opinion. The mRNA vaccines aren't just new vaccines, they are a new category of vaccine that has never been trialled on humans until Covid-19 was upon us.

Its not as if the viral vector vaccines like AZ have been trailed a lot either. A handful of trials for malaria, zika and Ebola vaccines but nothing large scale until Covid came along.

But there's so much noise flying around it's no surprise kids are getting confused...

That there is, there’s even tiktoker with million of view claiming the best way to survive an airplane crash is to put your feet on the front seat because airliner don’t want you to live to sue them after a crash (!!!)

FFS. The world is in a dire position, and vaccines are the thing that will get us out of it. In ten years time, when we look back on this, those who did their bit will remember very well who the mask whiners, conspiracy peddlers and “vaccine hesitant” were.

“vaccine hesitant”

As I said, there some very legitimate causes for certain people to be vaccine hesitant. This term does not exonerate anti-vaxxers and idiots though.

John Oliver had a good video on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPHgRp70H8o

They were never deemed safe enough to reach clinical trial - interesting article from before Covid on moderna - https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/.

I'm not against anyone having the vaccine but it should be through a risk reward assessment. There should be no stigma for those that decide not to have it imo, its a personal medical choice.

How about asking our wonderful government why they are only now trialing ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine rather than making such ridiculous sweeping statements.

FFS. The world is in a dire position, and vaccines are the thing that will get us out of it. In ten years time, when we look back on this, those who did their bit will remember very well who the mask whiners, conspiracy peddlers and “vaccine hesitant” were.

Just so we're clear, its perfectly possible to believe that having the vaccine is the right thing to do but at the same time acknowledge the fact that two of the main vaccines are based on technology that hadn't previously been tested in humans on a large scale. That's not vaccine hesitancy, that's understanding the context of the science behind the vaccines.

I was just saying that I can understand why some people have talked themselves into not wanting the vaccine, not that I agree with it.

not to mention spending a tiny bit of their wasted billions on promoting the massive benefits of Vit D3 and healthy living.