General election 2015

@Fox: You're not doing yourself any favours.

Your response to them speaking in their own language is pretty childish - and actually nationalistic ("why can't they just speak English?") despite your own views about it. Maybe they just want to? Maybe they're interested in the history and sound and feeling of it - before another country came along and wiped it out.

No, it's not. They don't really speak gaelic, they never spoke it or were interested in it before. They have suddenly decided they want to start speaking it because of the rampant nationalism being whipped up by the SNP. If they were native speakers of gaelic and just wanted to speak it fine, and I don't care if they do, but in this context it is so forced and painful. And it is designed to deliberately exclude those who do not speak gaelic.

I see Jim Murphy is hanging around like a bad smell in the office. Labour in Scotland finished then.

I'm glad he lost his seat. All he talked about was the SNP. He had zero to offer.

Sorry Fox that's not meant as a reply but I cant edit that bit.

Grew up watching Border TV. I feel an affinity with my brothers north of the boarder. Fucking love saturated fats too.

I was waiting for Gruber to wade into this thread. Now the fun can start.

Sort of... He'll put his name forward again as leader.

Also he's now pro-PR. Don't remember him banging on the table for it when we had the referendum...

If they were native speakers of gaelic and just wanted to speak it fine, and I don't care if they do, but in this context it is so forced and painful. And it is designed to deliberately exclude those who do not speak gaelic.

What do you care? Let them alone, let them do what they want, stop trying to make them English - An entire bloody empire was built on that premise, which I don't think anyone would look back with admiration on.

farage not discounting standing in new leadership contest

So you'll be voting for the Humanist Party of Earth for the next election will you? Lines are drawn somewhere. If five million people decide that being part of an outdated historical union they never voted for and that routinely marginalises them isn't the way forward it's probably quite a sage decision to set up a system that better serves their needs and compliments their national identity.

Champagne quaffing cadavers lurching around Westminster in ermine capes or the queen bombing around in a solid gold chariot doesn't really give most people up here something to relate to.

And I mean bloody in a literal context there. Not as a derogatory adjective, e.g. bloody forrins.

Nearly forgot, my gran was a Nesbitt from Govan. My mum has the catholic guilt to prove it.

IMO nationalism is inherently divisive

Possibly, but you haven't argued convincingly as to why creating division is inherently bad. Putin thinks that the divisions that were created between the post Soviet states are inherently bad. A lot of people think of those divisions (i.e. sovereignty for the Baltic states) as good things. Nationalism isn't an evil in its own right.

Pity you're in 'boro.

Well somebody needs to deliver some home truths about the SNP. I'm surprised more people on here don't feel the same way, I'm amazed by how tolerant of a nationalist party everyone appears to be.

I actually think that non-Scots can go and live in Scotland no problem, but many appear to not understand why a nationalist party might put people off.

@ùbér_grùbér @Fox @dubkev

Stop! Divide and rule guys, divide and rule.

Clegg has resigned as Lib Dem leader.

Conservatives 2/3 leadership scalps so far.

Are the SNP small-minded nationalists?

Well obviously they are nationalists. However I don't think small-minded is an accurate description. I think they see a potential to better serve the broader interests of their constituents than the job that is being done by a remote government with a tendancy to demonstrate a failure to appreciate the nature of their personal identity and life in their their area. It's a story that is borne out frequently in more ruralised areas of this country. A sweeping change in practice or taxation may seem only a minor effect in close proximity to Westminster but further away those effects can often be significantly better. It's no surprise that there's a political will to try and change the way they are governed. They're looking for the same amount of political relevance that Westminster has in London.

@fox I'll be voting Green in the Scottish elections. A lot of other people will probably go back to voting Scottish Labour under a different leader.

I think your understanding of Scottish politics and culture is a lot less nuanced than you'd like to believe and that repeatedly pointing to the nationalist bogeyman as if the whole country is about to dissolve into some kind of Stalinist gulag is risible.

Clegg also resigns. Expect the Tories to unleash a flurry of policy announcements in recent weeks. Such as the buried NHS report.

I'm Cumbrian. I was born in Redcar to 'Boro parents who escaped when I was 2.

I went to a humanist wedding (in Scotland!) and it was great. I agree it makes sense for Scotland but I can never condone nationalism, that's just something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

They don't do much for me either, off with their heads I say. I'd love a republic. I'd also love to see the sort of energy, drive and interest that has been injected into Scottish politics here, but I believe in fewer borders, not more.

To clarify I meant that their nationalism is small minded, not that they are broadly small minded. Sorry, that probably wasn't very clear.

I imagine they are like kids in a sweet shop. Red pens just crossing out numbers all over the shop.

Just console yourself with what a fucking nightmare Cameron is going to have sitting opposite Alex Salmond for five years whilst containing the ambitious idiocy of Boris Johnson. He'll finally have to do some work for the first time in his life.