Should Scotland be an independent country?

I couldn't guess how I'd feel if i were Scottish.

My gut feeling is the fewer borders and better co-operation we have the better this is for the world, the easier it is for people to move around and the fewer barriers for fair commerce the better, and the more control people are able to have to ensure that we have in place wide reaching regulation to protect the planet. (While a federal system can ensure local priorities can be set so long as these don't contravene world-saving, fairness legislation)

I agree re: borders, we are all the same deep down and whilst the world is becoming more open Scotland wants to close itself off? People say 'little Englander' but the Scots really do embody that attitude. I'm English living in Scotland......maybe if I was Scottish it would make more sense, but I can't help but feel it's the wrong move........

Really? Thought they still wanted to be part of the EU, which would still mean freedom of movement, no?

I honestly hope that they push through with this. It'll be worth it in the long run

I'd also agree that a lack of borders is a good thing, however in this case I think that not being governed by the bunch of shits that run this place is more important, sounds like they want a more open immigration policy anyway and as long as I don't need to dig out a passport when I finally get round to visiting Glasgow for polo I'm happy.

The BBC coverage is a disgrace-more befitting Zimbabwe than a free democratic country.

I was at a Yes flashmob rally yesterday in Glasgow and there were thousands of good natured, happy, singing people all peacefully signalling their beliefs and solidarity.

The BBC turn up late on in the day, and their reports use a photo showing a handful of people:

This is what it really looked like:

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Compared to their published image of the No campaign in Glasgow:

Which actually looked like:

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Yet they are more than happy to give air time to an antiquated, bigoted and divisive Orange Order march which was re-branded as a peaceful and inclusive event 'by people from all over the UK'.

Maybe if you count a few thousand thugs from Ulster flying in to relive the good old days of butchering Catholics at the behest of the King you could describe it that way, testimonial from friends living in Edinburgh said the atmosphere was one of tension and intimidation, which is par for the course with these events.

The No campain, the BBC really need to consider how this looks to the outside world when they ally themselves with people like this. Farage coming up on Friday and calling Scots racist is just another surreal element of this whole doublespeak marathon-he who is allied to Jobbik and other neo-Nazi groups in Europe and doesn't want to live next door to Romanians.

Fucking disgusting.

Aside from the usual media bullshit slant it seems like a lot of Yes voters feel that Westminster government doesn't represent them. Well welcome to the real world, how many of us in the UK think that the government ever totally represents their views.

I'd be happy to see them leave if they want to go, I'm pretty anti Scottish anyhow based on my limited experience of them. They've always winged about lack of representation but they get their 8% and just want more by shouting about how unfair things are.

So, you accept that the UK political system is badly representative of the people, yet when the Scots try to change it for the better to make their society and economy more equal and healthy, you brand that as 'whingeing'? Us 'just wanting more' is not about 'wanting more' to the detriment of anyone else, it's about wanting our votes to count for something and wanting a system that will be accountable to the people that live here.

Your post just sounds apathetic, dismissive and ignorant of any of the real issues at stake here.

Will the Scots introduce PR should they vote in favour of an independent Scotland?

Scots already have a form of PR and deliberately ruled out first past the post:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/visitandlearn/Education/16285.aspx

All the more reason to vote yes in that case.

That 'no' bloke looks ang-e-ry.

If I were Scottish I'd vote yes. The more I see of the Tory-led no campaign, the more I'm absolutely convinced that being free of them for good is the right thing to do

I came to post a similar sentiment, but from the other side.

Although I have always been against the pseudo-union as constructed under the 1706 Treaty, particularly Article 19, I think a proper union would make sense, in the same way that a united Ireland makes sense; if in doubt, look at a map.

However, during the current campaign, I have become increasingly convinced by the Yes group. Not by their arguments, which are plainly silly, but because every time I hear one of them speak I am increasingly certain that England would be a better place without its semi-detached northern neighbour.

I accept that any form of government will fail a proportion of the voters some of the time regardless of it's manifesto. However I also try to work out how to live my own life within the system, so I'm pro-active and feel that I can influence my own destiny by responding to prevailing conditions including those created by government and local government. I'm not a fan of the Scottish form of socialism, you can experiment with it on your own if you like.

Your votes will only count for something if you happen to be aligned with the majority of voters, there would still be plenty of Scottish people living without a hope of their votes electing a government they support. I'm dismissive of Scotland in general because the Scottish who live in Scotland have almost no part in my life and don't contribute directly to my success or failure.

I know what it's like to be part of a minority group but focussing on the unfair will not change the fact you are a minority. Scotland is a small nation battling to get it's voice heard and opinions recognised. Scottish politicians have been instrumental in government for hundreds of years and still the Scottish claim they don't get their way, well you're not the only ones.

Is it just because we disagree that you get off calling me ignorant of the facts? My opinion is shaped by the information I've seen presented. You can argue I've less experience than the Scots of the terribly unfair governing of the UK but it will probably sound like a whinge.

Is it just because we disagree that you get off calling me ignorant of the facts?

I reckon he just thinks you're a bit of an airhead. :)

Is it just because we disagree that you get off calling me ignorant of the facts?

I'm not a fan of the Scottish form of socialism

My opinion is shaped by the information I've seen presented... You can argue I've less experience than the Scots of the terribly unfair governing of the UK but it will probably sound like a whinge....

I'm pretty anti Scottish anyhow based on my limited experience of them.

No, you're absolutely right. In your response to me pointing out the BBC/press media bias (that informs your opinion of us), your own very clear admission that you're 'anti-Scots' based on limited experience, and making a strange generalisation that Scotland is somehow experimenting with Socialism by wanting a greater degree of self-determination (it's called democracy, not Socialism-and the irony is that the UK press have been describing Salmond as everything from a conservative to a fascist), and that using a referendum is akin to 'whingeing', you are very clearly a reasonable and well informed person who has taken the time and effort to consider the matter from both sides of the debate rather than just making a superficial and derogatory judgement founded on a self-serving perception that the English are the victims in this whole failed political experiment that's called the UK.

Well done.

it's only bias when it doesn't support your viewpoint

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/510931853629734912

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSOu8f549iM&feature=youtu.be

I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince people that don't want to change their minds, but the BBC charter states it should be politically impartial, and what they are doing is far from it. Either by mendacious presentation of the 'facts' (Nick Robinson is a dyed in the wool Tory who established his local Tory party chapter-that is a fact) or just convenient non-reporting of events. We've heard bullshit lines about the RBS 'moving' to London, why nothing about this? http://www.irishcentral.com/news/American-banks-to-relocate-to-Dublin-if-Britain-quits-European-Union.html

When I hear the 'poor old England' line all I can think of is this:

The self indulgence to wonder why in one of the richest nations in the world, over one fifth of the population live in poverty and the life expectancy of a man in Glasgow is ten years less than a man from Baghdad...

for you Facebonkers this is worth watching - I dunno, to me he makes sense

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=798709416847541&set=vb.100001254709132&type=2&theater

I was agreeing with the general direction of the thread that there is media slant and it's bullshit. I'm not aligning the Scot's whinging (spell it however you like) with the referendum but with the complaint that Scottish views are not represented in Westminster. We are all victims of the 'failed political experiment', that was my point. If you think the Scottish can work it out better on their own then good luck to you. I don't.

You probably want to fight me now, that what the Scottish do right :)

There is so much basic factual misinformation in that it's crazy.

Bank of England, founded by a Scot, is not a government asset. Indeed, it's current strength, holdings have been built up collectively by the UK. It would be the lender of last resort in much the same way the European Central Bank is for the EU. This has nothing to do with tax payers or 'permission' from them, in much the same way that French depositors don't have to ask Germans for permission, and indeed, all are free to set their own corporation taxes depending on the dynamics of their own economy. Why did Britain bail out Ireland? Because so much British money was invested there. Why does this ability or willingness to both invest and support apply to Ireland, but not Scotland?

The 'billions' being removed from the Scottish economy: clear misunderstanding of how corporation tax works. Moving a registered office to London does nothing for the tax liability of the company for the economic activity taking place inside Scotland. i.e fuck all difference. It's like saying NatWest opening a call center in India means the UK loses out on the fucking profit. The RBS has itself rubbished any notion of moving business out of Scotland, LLoyds is already based in London, plus ca change.

Re: jobs/currency/percentage of GDP of finance compared to oil-why does Switzerland, a country with its own currency, a population of 7 million, and no natural resources or comparable industry to Scotland, have no problem being a financial capital? Why is it that they can operate throughout the world with no problem? Why is it, out of the whole EU, they are the only people to legally limit bankers bonuses and pursue an end to bonus culture?

National debt: He fails to mention that despite all the cuts, all the 'in it together hardship' where the MP's have just rewarded themselves with an inflation-beating 10% pay rise for massively increasing the UK's national debt. Scotland has the economic strength to take on debt in the short term transition period to be able to invest in job creation and industry. For a Neo Lib like the the author of this video that's obviously not something he'd countenance.

Anyway. Here's Ireland's take. It makes much more sense and seems to be spoken from a greater degree of impartiality.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202639837977316&set=vb.1238705603&type=2&theater