Social ride etiquette

? Just feels a bit more friendly that way imo.

I agree with this. It's intimidating for new people to be ordered to the front, as though they are at the head of some kind of velocipedic Bataan Death March. It's worse still if there's faster riders breathing down your neck and you know they want to overtake you but instead they're going to hover at your rear wheel giving you daggers. (I also end up at the back a lot even though I'm better off near the front, because I'm deaf - I don't like being near the front because I can't see what's coming up behind clearly, so people tend to have a horrible time getting me near the front and keeping me there. Sorry, everybody who has ever been on a ride with me, ever.)

For this might it not be better to make sure people know what 'car back' means/are expected to do in the pre [strike]race[/strike] ride discussion with the leader?

I also agree with this. Was kind of wondering what the shout would be otherwise. It needs to be brief and to-the-point otherwise everybody's going to be going "what was that? Eh? Somebody's shouting something but I only heard half of it", whereas "car back" or "single up" are short phrases with a specific auditory pattern. That's why they work!

1. Good practice for rear riders to move (right) before front riders when changing lane to claim the space and prevent anyone overtaking as the group move over
   
   

Something to be aware of here is everyone moving too far right on narrower roads and being dangerously *UNDER*taken. A line of riders on the middle line of a busy carriageway waiting to turn across speeding traffic while traffic speeds inside them feels a bit shit.

Regarding 'Car back'
(I have amended the guidance to include Branwen's point)

Unless the idea is to urgently let the driver behind pass because they are irate, shouting 'car back', especially in town, adds unnecessary tension to riders who may be unsure what to do. Also why 'car' back which de-humanises road users, better to say 'driver behind' if anything

Because "CAR BACK!" is easier to hear and understand than "DRIVER BEHIND!", especially for the like of I (even thought I may be the only deaf person involved).

perhaps a disclaimer that points like 5 do not necessarily apply if the goal of the ride is to go fast?
or would this be already taken care of by the 'social ride guidance' title, as in social pace?

perhaps a disclaimer that points like 5 do not necessarily apply if the goal of the ride is to go fast?
or would this be already taken care of by the 'social ride guidance' title, as in social pace?

Yes there will be some preamble to explain what the guidance is for. Will put this together later (unless someone else wants to write a preamble)

David sometimes, you do make things difficult! "car back" as bothwell mentions, is easy to hear. You start saying driver behind you're gonna get a lot of confused people wondering what the hell people are on about.

Because "CAR BACK!" is easier to hear and understand than "DRIVER BEHIND!", especially for the like of I.

...but Ed you wouldn't need a shout since you are ALWAYS aware of what is behind because you look back all the time

? Just feels a bit more friendly that way imo.

I agree with this. It's intimidating for new people to be ordered to the front...
Also may be a good way for less experienced riders to learn about sitting a wheel. Good thread.

Also why 'car' back which de-humanises road users, better to say 'driver behind' if anything

The main reason for this is likely because the former has 2 syllables and a fairly unambiguous auditory pattern, instead of 4 and a more complex vowel / consonant composition. I see what you mean about it increasing tension in an urban setting, though - it's more difficult to single up and let a vehicle pass safely when there's parked cars lining the left hand side.

• it's more difficult to single up and let a vehicle pass safely when there's parked cars lining the left hand side.
  
  

exactly. And drivers if well managed are generally happy to wait back which is why I think 'car back' isn't necessary in town where there is always drivers behind

...but Ed you wouldn't need a shout since you are ALWAYS aware of what is behind because you look back all the time

What if he's in the middle of the group and when he looks back all he can see is the peloton all playing moving chinese whispers with what they think they heard in the distance, and not able to see the vehicle that he's being alerted to?

It often helps to double-up going through or stopping at lights (other vehicles should not be overtaking you at lights anyway) and then single-out when through. You're more likely to get through quickly and as a group - provided everyone is pedal-ready. Rear gunner waves a thank you to traffic behind is nice too.

^^ That's usually why I tend to be in either near the front, or the back making it easier for me to assess the peleton's behaviour easily.

It often helps to double-up going through or stopping at lights

Yeah, there should definitely be something about this in there. 10+ cyclists still doing dodgy filtering to the front and wobbling about as the lights change in a minor panic because they don't know where the others are anymore due to cars in the way. No thanks.

Great thread - lots to think about as someone who leads rides and attends in the middle somewhere

Will let you know the date of: A Corking day out- Ride leader training run for forum ride leaders

I was also just about to ask if we could have something like this. Ace.

How about Sunday 4th August for this?

Sound good, don't think I can make it (LEL).

There is a case for another thread discussing etiquette for other categories. Especially fast training rides

would be nice to keep the conversations together at least for a while - most people go on more than one type of ride and different times, and part of the interesting part of this thread is thinking about the differences.

re: "car back!" - a bit unnecessary in town, when everyone expects there to be traffic and to be riding in traffic whenever on a road. more relevant for quiet country roads especially if they seem to be wanting to pass quickly.

oh, and I agree with bothwell. have been the slowest on rides, and really do not like being at the front. don't want to be left behind either, but somewhere in the middle / towards the back is most comfortable. at the front I just feel like I need to keep trying to go as fast as I can as everyone is behind me :/

Yes true. I suppose with everyone being encouraged to keep an eye out on who is behind then pace setters (slower riders) could be anywhere in the group

would be nice to keep the conversations together at least for a while.

I don't know, frankly I can't STAND being forced to wait for the slower conversations when I want to go FAST ... ahem!

That's a good point hoefla, my reasoning to get a struggling rider to the front is its easy to start after a stop and start speeding up, then stopping for the slower rider, and as soon as they catch up, end up going again. This means they never get a proper rest when they're ones who most need it!

oh, and I agree with bothwell. have been the slowest on rides, and really do not like being at the front. don't want to be left behind either, but somewhere in the middle / towards the back is most comfortable. at the front I just feel like I need to keep trying to go as fast as I can as everyone is behind me :/

Can empathised with this, but I don't think they necessary mean you're right in the front leading the ride, rather just behind the leader who set the paces.

This is probably one of those thing where the leader make a difference in making the individual feel comfortable to ride and not get the impression they're holding up everyone.

Corking ride is on
http://www.lfgss.com/thread105730.html