Social ride etiquette

Agree Branwen .
That is the plan, to have some guidance which people can refer to (and choose to ignore [after 12 pints of Guinness ;)]

I think a lot of the issues are to do with lack of thought and experience . I started this thread with a view to encouraging some thinking about riding together and perhaps up-skilling lfgss riders making people ride more efficiently together and so have more fun and less conflict.

I will summarise these ideas in a day or so and request a sticky in the rides forum

good thread/discussion, skydancer

^

Yeah, kinda got ahead of myself (surprise surprise).

But as with most things, rules are great in theory, but will people follow them?

People followed some of the leader's ride rules without issue and problem, I can't see why not as long everyone agree at the beginning of each ride that they understood the rules and requirement.

Before doing a group ride, I usually spend about five minutes talking about ride etiquette and make sure everyone understood (the fifth time...).

I am thinking that you may first want to classify rides as group training (emphasis on tight co-ordinated bunch), group social (emphasis on relaxed friendlyness) and point to point competitive/social (possibly try to form small groups for navigational reasons but it is each for themselves between set locations).

^Good definitions Ramaye.
This thread is about

group social (emphasis on relaxed friendlyness)

There is a case for another thread discussing etiquette for other categories. Especially fast training rides

I didn't think LFGSS do fast training rides.

Fwiw the thing that we did on the Bletchley Ride last year where we split into two separate groups, fast and slow, was a really good idea. Obviously it increases the 'administration' (so to speak) costs, but it means there's a pace that suits the sporty types as well as the social plodders. That was kind of happening on the Guinness ride but in a mysteriously disorganised and shambolic way, without any pre-arrangement.

this is a good thread, may I suggest skydancer to include the rule about marshalls closing the ride as well, whenever you will be building something sticky-worthy.

Lead rides? Sounds heavy. There I was stressing about my steel ride.

That wouldn't go down well with the short-fused drivers around here. Like I said, my answers are based on my own experience of these situations, and I already acknowledged that others' experiences may be different...

Never been on an LFGSS ride so not sure of dress habits but perhaps more casually dressed folk communicating nicely with drivers behind (ie a good, dedicated, smiling sweeper) is less likely to upset motorists than team kit lycra folk with their eyes down on their SRM doing through and off. Just a thought.

The question needs to be asked though - is it right that you sacrifice your own safety so as to not piss off a motorist? I'd reckon you'd get fewer punctures on rides where you weren't constantly moving left into the shit that accumulates on the sides of roads.

True Maths Geek ride was brilliantly manage by Object who kept everyone informed involved and encouraged.

I started thinking about this after the olympic 1948 which was a sort of race though I didn't realise and expected a more social run
(http://www.lfgss.com/thread64258-4.html http://www.lfgss.com/post2351699-183.html)

The question needs to be asked though - is it right that you sacrifice your own safety so as to not piss off a motorist? .

This is the nub of many issues and is worth thinking more about.
(repped for lead joke ;)

^

But as with most things, rules are great in theory, but will people follow them?
I think this is where leading by example/social pressure will be more valuable than a couple of people quoting 'the rules' to all and sundry, only to be widely ignored

I believe sometimes it's just a matter of lack of knowledge, rather than bad intentions. People think organising a ride is on a 'oh, lets go and organise a ride' basis, not being aware of what responsibility should come with, for everybody's safety and, more importantly, pleasure.

Interesting thread, I'm sure I've made many of these mistakes when I've led rides in the past. People like bernie and almac who are always willing to backstop are the most important people on a social ride. One technique I will try next time is if someone is struggling get them right to the front and ride at their pace that way.

One technique I will try next time is if someone is struggling get them right to the front and ride at their pace that way.

Great idea, much easier than trying to ride at an idea speed.

I've led loads of these things, and backstopped plenty too. Rules are a bit moot. Assertiveness from the leader and backstop are far more meaningful. Rather than state a rule, I'd rather state the probable outcome of refusal to comply with the ad hoc directives of the bookending riders.

It's an organic process that cannot be prescribed.

If it's Ian, I ride behind.
Ha!!!!

Kettle black....

To be fair, Master Skydancer was a gem and followed me to the next stop while i was riding a Barlcays Bike....

Pure gentleman!

So pulling together some strands into a guidance thread here is a list. This is in addition to the normal route, contact and logistical information posted on thread. feel free to add stuff and change things. The guidance is not just for leaders but anyone in the ride can take a role.

Social ride guidance

1. Agree how the ride is to be run, including riding speed, RLJ policy, with all before starting so people's expectations are managed
   
2. Allocate leader and sweeper roles. Leader shares mobile phone number with all. For rural longer rides leader has everyones mobile
   
3. Make noobs welcome
   
4. Route planning-Often taking up a whole (bus) lane on an A road is less risky and more efficient that a twisty back road cycle route (though perhaps not as pleasant an environment)
   
5. Slowest riders dictate the pace so can be encouraged to ride near the front
   
6. All riders to ensure they are aware of riders** behind**. If you lose sight of the rider(s) behind slow down or pull in to regroup. Shout out any issues to ensure riders in front slow or pull over.
   
7. Avoid filtering through traffic, front riders stop behind drivers at lights and move through lights in the traffic stream
   
8. Consider politely preventing drivers from passing until there is room for them to clear the whole group. (Be sensible with this most drivers will appreciate the communication and hang back, if a driver is clearly irate, get everyone to move left to let them pass). Agree whether or not you plan to use 'roadie' conventions such as shouting 'car back ' or 'clear' and explain these to all.
   
9. When turning at T-junctions It is often better to cork them requesting drivers give up on their right of way to keep the group together
   
10. Good practice for rear riders to move (right) before front riders when changing lane to claim the space and prevent anyone overtaking as the group move over
    

One addition for your 'aware of riders behind bit'. Riders to shout forwards messages such as punctures, issues with pace, splits due to lights or other obstacles. It helps people be aware of what is truely going on behind.

So when are you leading your ride David? ;)

Good question:
Will let you know the date of: A Corking day out- Ride leader training run for forum ride leaders

Not sure I can make that date, might be able to make the forum ride backstop training for forum ride backstoppers. Perhaps you could use that date to sweep up the people who cannot make the leaders run as I'm sure they compliment each other?

Can we combine the forum ride corkers training for social forum ride corkers with a social event like perhaps a wine tasting?

good effort, repped

Lols ramaye

Lets plan this together?

1. Slowest riders dictate the pace so are encourage to ride near the front
   ? Just feels a bit more friendly that way imo.
   
   
   

Avoid roadie conventions such as shouting 'car back ' since people are not clear what to do with such information.
For this might it not be better to make sure people know what 'car back' means/are expected to do in the pre [strike]race[/strike] ride discussion with the leader?

Other than those two thoughts, I think its excellent. 7 had never occurred to me at all until this discussion.

@ramaye @branwen thanks for your suggestions, amended guidance accordingly