Unis charge whatever they want. If you can't afford it, jog on. A model of fairness and equality.

The biggest winners, in my opinion, will be the Scottish universities who will see a massive rise in applicants and, i imagine, their development and prestige will go through the roof!

they also operate on a questionable system of privately funded scholarships - something they're aparantly considering rolling out here.

The good news is that a whole generation of educated middle class people are being politisised. The long term implications of this will last for decades. The Liberal Party is dead. The tories are dying.

I only hope this is the case, however given that this is the generation that failed to be politicised in the 80's, I'm not quite as hopeful as I could be.

I hated the 80's but I managed to escape into further education with all fees paid and a maintenance grant.

Can't help but feel that the many in my position have just pulled the rope up after them.

Deeply disappointing.

I only hope this is the case, however given that this is the generation that failed to be politicised in the 80's, I'm not quite as hopeful as I could be.

I hated the 80's but I managed to escape into further education with all fees paid and a maintenance grant.

Can't help but feel that the many in my position have just pulled the rope up after them.

Deeply disappointing.

Thatcher's children, sadly. The "I'm alright jack, pull up the ladder" attitude pervades even amongst those who claim they were opposed to everything she stood for.

but don't forget your sister won't be paying huge amounts back, if, as you say the career she has chosen pays a lesser amount over £21K she will get an extra 10% tax from her paypacket
the graduate on 80K per year will be paying back significanlty more than her

if she is passionate about the job and getting her degree then the debt, albeit a nasty one and a huge burden over her for a good few years will be worth it in the end
if she isn't convinced by the degree and the subsequent job then maybe she should try something else

nottryingtosoundlikeafascisthere

i'll shut up now

The biggest winners, in my opinion, will be the Scottish universities who will see a massive rise in applicants and, i imagine, their development and prestige will go through the roof!

I think it's the scottish students that won't have to pay, no matter where they study, the gov't will cover thier costs if they study in England. But i think other EU student will get free education in Scotland, All EU students apart from the English. - no facts to bask this up, it's just something I read somewhere so not 100% sure it's true.

How does the US system work?

Was mentioned on question time last night at our uni's will now be more expensive that US public uni's - their private uni's (harvard is one) charge a lot more but have a lot more moeny to covery bursary's etc.

but don't forget your sister won't be paying huge amounts back, if, as you say the career she has chosen pays a lesser amount over £21K she will get an extra 10% tax from her paypacket
the graduate on 80K per year will be paying back significanlty more than her

if she is passionate about the job and getting her degree then the debt, albeit a nasty one and a huge burden over her for a good few years will be worth it in the end

The debt will still be there for however long, growing at a greater rate that Students have to pay now. Not something nice to have in the background and will effect choices of where to work, live, buying a house, starting a family etc. The Gov't talk about it being writtern off after so many years but none of this has been anounced yet so is not clear and i'm sure they won't want to write off lots of loans as this is supposed to be a money saving exercise.

Think student loans aren't included, if i went bankrupt i think student loans are exempt and would still be owed. ( just googled this - [FONT=Arial] Since 1 September 2004 all outstanding student loans cannot be claimed in bankruptcy. They remain the responsibility of the (former) student to repay within the terms of the loan arrangement. )[/FONT]
If you mean the 6 year staute barred thing, then don't know how it works with student loans but assume that every year you apply for a defferement on wages would equal contact and setting the 6 year no contact rule to year 1 again. Beside staute barred debt can still show on your credit rating and fuck things up for you, just means it can be legallly enforced/collected.

but don't forget your sister won't be paying huge amounts back, if, as you say the career she has chosen pays a lesser amount over £21K she will get an extra 10% tax from her paypacket
the graduate on 80K per year will be paying back significanlty more than her

if she is passionate about the job and getting her degree then the debt, albeit a nasty one and a huge burden over her for a good few years will be worth it in the end
if she isn't convinced by the degree and the subsequent job then maybe she should try something else

nottryingtosoundlikeafascisthere

i'll shut up now

It's not so much the rate of payments as the incredible length of time it will take to complete them. My debt is significant enough for me to have resigned to the fact that I will probably be paying it back for many many years to come. Under the new system, many years seem like they might be more like a lifetime.

The point I was trying to make though with my sister is actually some of the most important jobs (teaching, nursing etc) require a university level education but don't necessarily pay that well. It's a common misconception that all graduates earn more than non-graduates – statistically that margin is incredibly low when taken over a lifetime's earning. Most motivated people who leave school at 18 will be earning more by the time their peers graduate from university than they do in their first job, and in most cases the gap doesn't change significantly from that point.

The richest people, it seems to me, are those that either worked bloody hard (and probably trod on a few people) their whole lives – the Alan Sugars of this world – and those who were born rich. University education seems to have little to do with it to my eyes. I went to University because I was interested in my subject, it's a semi-vocational course and I enjoy studying. Money is for me, like many of my peers, not a central motivation in life – I would far rather be happy in my work earning relatively little than earning loads and doing something I hated. Unfortunately the rise in fees adds another layer of tension to that equation, and I suspect will greatly inform the vast majority's decision of whether or not they should continue their education beyond school.

If it costs a UK student the same amount to do a degree here, or a degree overseas (and they speak the language) I would think that there would be a strong temptation to opt for the overseas University.

Also, might this make people look at a degree as more of an investment- i.e. if the choice is between Media Studies or Computer Science and the Comp Sci course is £2,400 per year versus £9,000 for Media then we might create more computer scientists?

Then what are we going to do with all the computer scientists? This is far less of a problem when there isn't the divide based on fees.

As has been mentioned there is a huge imbalance between sciences and humanities, perhaps this will rebalance if the undersubscribed courses are more affordable?

the graduate on 80K per year will be paying back significanlty more than her

Both the 80K and and the OT will both have to repay the full amount right?

Not nitpicking you but can someone explain this to me. I believe the current student loans are paid back only when you earnabove a given threshold. What then is the difference in the new proposals? Surely people currently only start paying back above a certain threshold anyway so the only difference is a tripling of the principal along with a massive rise in interest payments.

In anycase presumably everyone will have to pay back the full amount so a £30k loan paid back in tiny amounts will still be around peoples neck well into their 40's.

My ex-landlords wife splits her month between London and New York, she is paid from an American bank into her American bank.

She's earning well over a million quid a year, none of it technically in the UK, despite living and working here, if that makes sense.

Not sure how relevent that is, but it occured to me because she would not have to repay a penny of her law degree under current rules.

New proposals are at a higher level - 10% over £25k, as opposed to current 9% over £15k.

Also, this is interest free debt: the amount you pay back is worth the same as the amount you borrow. Not sure I would classify that as being "around peoples necks", but maybe I'm too rational.

My student loan incurs interest.
Are the government not also planning on 'selling off' the student loan book?

My ex-landlords wife splits her month between London and New York, she is paid from an American bank into her American bank.

She's earning well over a million quid a year, none of it technically in the UK, despite living and working here, if that makes sense.

Not sure how relevent that is, but it occured to me because she would not have to repay a penny of her law degree under current rules.

Yes, she does. If you leave the country, you need to inform SLC and pay an annual percentage of your salary.

My student loan incurs interest.

Yes, but only to adjust it for inflation. The money you pay back is worth the same as that which you borrowed. That does not mean it is the same number of gold nuggets.

Yes, she does. If you leave the country, you need to inform SLC and pay an annual percentage of your salary.

Ah, ok. How would they check, out of interest, if I told them I was earning 10K a year as a waiter, whilst earning rather more than that?

Yes, but only to adjust it for inflation. The money you pay back is worth the same as that which you borrowed. That does not mean it is the same number of gold nuggets.

Oh, ok. I think I knew that but had blocked it out.

You can't be serious - you'd be comfortable starting your working life sitting on that level of debt.

Also, the interest is charged at the inflation level. Which is fine if your salary also rises with that level. I don't think my salary has that link

My student loan incurs interest.
Are the government not also planning on 'selling off' the student loan book?

Hmm like there aren't enough dodgy loan books around at the minute
Securitisation is what got us into this mess in the first place !

You can't be serious - you'd be comfortable starting your working life sitting on that level of debt.

Also, the interest is charged at the inflation level. Which is fine if your salary also rises with that level. I don't think my salary has that link

was that a question aimed at me? Yes, I went to university. Yes, I took a loan from the SLC. Yes, I'm fine with that.