Stop the Cuts - National Demonstration

Yes, I did too. I paid it back and it took ages. I went to medical school to start with (changed courses) which at the time was a 5-6 year course. This would have given me 50K debt or something (I don't know if that course is exempted from this). I would not have felt comfortable at all with taking that on aged 18.

New proposals are at a higher level - 10% over £25k, as opposed to current 9% over £15k.

Also, this is interest free debt: the amount you pay back is worth the same as the amount you borrow. Not sure I would classify that as being "around peoples necks", but maybe I'm too rational.

The proposals at the minute aren't interest free, the intrest will be between 0 to 3% depending on your salary, not sure if this is on top of inflation or not though. Thier proposals are still vague on a lot of issues

From BBC

The subsidised interest rate at which the repayments are made - currently 1.5% - will be raised. Under a "progressive tapering" system, the interest rate will rise from 0 for incomes of £21,000, to 3% plus inflation (RPI) for incomes above £41,000.

hmm. hadn't realised that. not a fan.

Just also read this aswell for the bbc

The Institute for Fiscal Studies says that, for about half of graduates, the plan is essentially a 9% graduate tax for 30 years, because they will not finish paying off the debt by the 30-year cut-off point.
Assuming fees of £7,500 for a three year degree, plus maintenance loans, its modelling shows that the top 10% of graduate earners will clear their debts, on average, in about 15 years. But a middle-earning graduate would need to earn, for example, an average of £48,850 a year for 26 years to pay off their debt.

heh, politicians having a bukkake session over the terribly difficult and dangerous job faced by the rozzaz, and how many have been hurt. hardly anything about people being detained under murky legality. don't complain about the known risks of your job ffs, especially when it comes down to it you are the one with the body armour and truncheon you fucking pussies.

The point I was trying to make though with my sister is actually some of the most important jobs (teaching, nursing etc) require a university level education but don't necessarily pay that well. It's a common misconception that all graduates earn more than non-graduates – statistically that margin is incredibly low when taken over a lifetime's earning. Most motivated people who leave school at 18 will be earning more by the time their peers graduate from university than they do in their first job, and in most cases the gap doesn't change significantly from that point.

The richest people, it seems to me, are those that either worked bloody hard (and probably trod on a few people) their whole lives – the Alan Sugars of this world – and those who were born rich. University education seems to have little to do with it to my eyes. I went to University because I was interested in my subject, it's a semi-vocational course and I enjoy studying. Money is for me, like many of my peers, not a central motivation in life – I would far rather be happy in my work earning relatively little than earning loads and doing something I hated. Unfortunately the rise in fees adds another layer of tension to that equation, and I suspect will greatly inform the vast majority's decision of whether or not they should continue their education beyond school.

Isn't this kind of the governments point? We shouldn't be providing subsidised education just so someone can study for fun / interest. It should be a considered decision, not a default decision.

I know that (while I still had a job) I was looking at experience on CVs, not just degree qualifications as they have been devalued by their ubiquity. There are relatively few things that NEED a degree and I think employers are now far more open to different routes into careers than they used to be.

As long as you are not Stuart Baggs off of The Apprentice.

Isn't this kind of the governments point? We shouldn't be providing subsidised education just so someone can study for fun / interest. It should be a considered decision, not a default decision.

I know that (while I still had a job) I was looking at experience on CVs, not just degree qualifications as they have been devalued by their ubiquity. There are relatively few things that NEED a degree and I think employers are now far more open to different routes into careers than they used to be.

As long as you are not Stuart Baggs off of The Apprentice.

Yes it is the governments point, i disagree that the only value that can be placed on something is a monetary one. Whats wrong with studying for interest?

heh, politicians having a bukkake session over the terribly difficult and dangerous job faced by the rozzaz, and how many have been hurt. hardly anything about people being detained under murky legality. don't complain about the known risks of your job ffs, especially when it comes down to it you are the one with the body armour and truncheon you fucking pussies.

Coppers will be OK, they can take 6 - 12 months off on fully paid sick leave due to stress.

Yes it is the governments point, i disagree that the only value that can be placed on something is a monetary one. Whats wrong with studying for interest?

Nothing wrong with that at all, the question is whether it should then be subsidised by the state?

Nothing wrong with that at all, the question is whether it should then be subsidised by the state?

I think all education should be free, as all is of use.

I think all education should be free, as all is of use.

I would also like to see all education for free, but struggle to see where the funding would come from to do this.

Genuine question: are there any countries that offer completely free university education?

I would also like to see all education for free, but struggle to see where the funding would come from to do this.

Genuine question: are there any countries that offer completely free university education?

the scandanavian countries do, i think

Genuine question: are there any countries that offer completely free university education?

As a student in France (from 1994 to 2000), uni fees were something like 2500 - 3000 francs a year (approx £320 - £380 at today's rate)

L

Some German unis dont charge fees, others base your fees on household income

Many northern european countries pay their students to study abroad- sweden, norway, estonia, finland...

How can you encourage more Brits from different economic circumstances to study for courses like medicine or architecture and then stay to work in the UK when graduates will be coming out of university with 90k debt? with much lower prospective salaries than equivalent jobs abroad?

you dont tend to find working or middle class 'foreign' (non EU) students in british universities.

So if this goes through will the fees go up next year? or the year after? because course i want to do next year is advertised at £6,000 p/a

God that thread makes me so sad...
For those in need of cheer-up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_d19EtxQO8

looks like fees are going to go up to £9000 no hope in hell for me

I think that there is a need to pay fees for university education, primarily because the amount of people attending university has reached such a level that it can no longer realistically fully state subsidised.

However it should be means tested, so those who are poor don't have to pay fees, and those that can afford to do so.

But more than that i think the whole approach to education should be reviewed - many people do not need to go to university - i spent 3 years in Bristol, and nothing i did there has any bearing on what i do now, not has it ever helped me advance in any job. I now employ people myself, and the ones who have a decent school education, and then have learnt on the job and real world experience tend to be far better than those whose only experience and knowledge are those they have parrot learned at Uni.

Universities are great institutions, but we need to lower the amount of people going needlessly, and then we can return to a level where fees are no longer necessary.

THe protest over fees, also valid given the pre election promises, is short sighted. Demonstating against the economic and political system which created this problem, as the G20 protest did would be a more appropriate target I think.

For example the attempt to close Topman tomorrow at 11am sounds like a brilliant idea. (The owner Phillip Green avoiding a few £Billion in tax by taking income in his wife's name who can claim non-domicle status as she live in Monaco). THe last time they did it it was went without a hitch and made a clear statement. This time I'm guessing the shop will be more prepared.

i want to do the Printmaking MA at the RCA, but i can't afford it.

I want to study for an MBA.

LBS EMBA course (which you do whilst working over two years) around £45k excluding expenses.

i want to do the Printmaking MA at the RCA, but i can't afford it.

Well, you could always just print money afterwards?

Goodnight