Stop the Cuts - National Demonstration

Why The Conservative basically won the last election?

and maybe the soclialist workers
don't know why those two don't just join forces

generally cos they are led by factional ideologues who are a bit nutty

dicki

I am currently reading Emma Goldman's account of her stay in the nascent Soviet Union between 1919 and 1921 and her disillusionment with Soviet ways. The SWP are closer to Marxist-Leninists than to the spirit of anarchy. I can quite see why the anarchists would want to steer clear. Remember Spain!

That skills and knowledge that allowed him to land the deal will more than likely though the experienced gained from his job(s).

In most cases very likely, in this case perhaps it's because he was able to strike up a conversation about a surfboard that the (unknown to him) CEO was riding and that he'd studied, and get some kind of rapport that would have been impossible in a 'business' situation.
I've mentioned in other threads that I do an acoustic guitar building course (evening class, I pay for it all myself ;)). The value of luthiers to the UK economy? Zero. The number of senior managers I've found interested in it - loads. I don't have a client facing / business generating role but I can easily see that it would be a way to generate interest / personal connections.

You are right in the taking a punt idea but there is no need for many of these punts to be degrees. HND, HNC, NVQs e.t.c work better but too many people are going to university to do a expensive, long 3 year course which is not needed.

This I haven't thought about at all, and I can well imagine you're right. However, I wasn't trying to draw a distinction between any type of higher education as I strongly suspect they're all getting shafted. The appropriateness of one form over another is a (definitely connected but) different conversation than the one that says we should charge so much for something that is in our national economic interest.

I've noticed everyone is talking about 9K but that's the max right? Would I be right in thinking cheaper uni's will get a lot more applications and possibly start altering the university market via competition?

I've read that it will be impossible for any university to charge less than the maximum as they would be classing themselves as being inferior. Even by your example, the cheap university with lots of applications simply apply supply / demand for their places and bump the price up as high as they can.

These fees will pay for the whole uni won't they, for teachers and libraries? It will be easy to justify charging the top whack.

Science courses, which are generally the most expensive, will receive greater subsidies. Arts courses none at all. The idea is to promote the sciences.

does anybody know the real terms increase of students doing degrees under labour ?

not a leading question just curious as i think the numbers did hike significantly

Arts courses, which are generally the least likely to vote Tory, will receive no subsidies.

I'm not stupid, and obviously don't believe this is the primary motivation. I applaud that sciences are promoted (but that's only because of my background) - but actually, if you can't get bums on seats (because your future scientists can't afford it) then it's still a bit pointless.

from the TES
The total number of students in English colleges stood at 2.4 million in 1998. This rose to 3.9 million learners in LSC-funded education and training in 2001/02 and to almost 4.8 million in 2008/09.

Now this might be controversial but ..................
100% increase in 10 years = significant increase in govt funding for education ? are there any areas of government that have had 100% increase in funding for this time period,
surely a tad of the blame can be levelled at labour trying to get every muther funker into university,so they could rise up the education stats / european educational league tables

i was lucky enough to leave uni with only £320 debt, the very first year of student loans
i wish it could be the same today i really do

And necessarily. Kids coming out of school could no longer look to a life down the mines or in steel works, docks or ship building. The jobs that were being created required a higher level of education and training. More kids required tertiary education.

100% increase in 10 years = significant increase in govt funding for education ?

Not quite. "Old" universities have not grown as much and yet cost more per student.

There was a good article in the Guardian earlier this week, about the PISA rankings and the full list is here. The Germans get the same results for 25% less and the Hungarians get the same scores on half the money they spend in the UK.

I believe the tuition fees in Germany are only €500 per semester as well.

from the TES
The total number of students in English colleges stood at 2.4 million in 1998. This rose to 3.9 million learners in LSC-funded education and training in 2001/02 and to almost 4.8 million in 2008/09.

Now this might be controversial but ..................
100% increase in 10 years = significant increase in govt funding for education ? are there any areas of government that have had 100% increase in funding for this time period,

Possibly controversial. On the other hand, what was the increase in taxation revenues and GDP prompted by having a more highly educated workforce?

i did edit prior to your post clive
i spotted that it isn't the whole infrastructure that increased by 100% just the students

and I have edited as well...

Somebody mentioned earlier that it wasn't just students who were protesting yesterday, but youths in general, some of whom have no intention of going to Uni.

It seems to me that when people, especially young people, are dissatisfied with how governments are operating, it eventually boils over into violent protests.

It seems to me that if it hadn't been student funding as an inflammatory issue, then sooner or later it would have been another issue - whatever the issue, aggro was going to flair at some point over the next year or two.

I say good on them. Fight against a government that doesn't listen, make yourselves heard!

Oh, and it made great telly last night too. Just lay off the spray painting and vandalism, kids.

The media coverage was so skewed though! Virtually no mention of nearly 1000 protesters being kettled on Westminster bridge until 11.30pm

I've noticed everyone is talking about 9K but that's the max right? Would I be right in thinking cheaper uni's will get a lot more applications and possibly start altering the university market via competition?

I've read that it will be impossible for any university to charge less than the maximum as they would be classing themselves as being inferior. Even by your example, the cheap university with lots of applications simply apply supply / demand for their places and bump the price up as high as they can.

My university will have to charge at least £8,500 in fees straight off the bat to maintain the same level of funding coming in to the university because of the cuts. Any course that isn't science or maths is likely to face similar figures. The idea that universities will charge £9000 only in exceptional circumstances is utter bollocks, and an outright lie. I genuinely believe it will be the majority, not the minority, charging £6k +.

This will instigate an unofficial hierarchy of courses based on price and not quality, which may well lead to all courses hiking up their prices in competition. If the feeling remains the way it seems to be now, with many lower and middle income students feeling unable to face the debt, everyone but the poorest (as a token gesture from the government) and the richest will be in our country's universities.

I've never been so angry about a political decision. Honestly, I don't know what I can do practically...feel so completely powerless.

are there more demonstrations planned?

like there isn't a hierarchy in the university system already

There is of course. But for home students it's not based on the price they have to pay to go there and the perceived 'quality' this infers

I've never been so angry about a political decision. Honestly, I don't know what I can do practically...feel so completely powerless.

Now that is a good point
They make promises, we vote for them, they abandon the promises
How does the populous get to call a general election ?
One thing to remember is that Labour and possibly the Liberals would have brought in fees anyhow if they gained power. Levels ? Not sure but Labour would have done just the same

Lying cheating bastards the lot of them

So will teachers (as an example of a job which requires a university education) of courses other than science be expected to pay all their fees but other won't?

There should be a hierarchy, don't get me wrong. In fact it's essential to the way higher education works. When it becomes a question of finance and background rather than ambition and ability, that is when you know the system is fucked up.

I'm incredibly grateful to be graduating this year. When I started, £10k of debt (fees alone) sounded like an insurmountable sum but I wanted to follow my ambition and although I will be paying for years to come I have no regrets. £10k sounds insignificant now. My sister who wants to be an occupational therapist, cannot justify £9k fees for such a low paying career. Contrary to popular belief, graduates do not all walk out of uni into cushty £80k pa desk jobs with frills.