Cycling-Related Strength & Conditioning

@andyp - I thought the Garmin lot did loads of year round non-bike maintenance stuff?

http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/exercise/sports/4294/christian_vande_velde_cycling_workout.html

They don't do drugs though, so need every advantage they can get.

They seem like a bunch of pot-heads to me. You know, for recovery :/

So based on the advice around Planks as sufficient to improve core strength is the approach of this video fairly near the mark?

http://www.youtube.com/v/8yFtmkYcZEY?fs=1&hl=en_US

I'm sure there are people here that would love to rip this apart and give it the big 'un... "she's not doing it right", "what does that achieve" etc., but in essence, performing isometric abdominal exercise whilst moving peripheral limbs is really beneficial for cyclists. The core muscles need to adapt and get stonger whilst recieving neurological feedback from the extremeties, whilst moving.
If you train to be strong whilst static - you are strongest - static. And so on. This is what babydinotrackboy was stating earlier (i think!). Squats and deadlifts etc etc etc are good for certain things like injury prevention and whatnot - but provide a very different neural mechanism to cycling, and unless you spend that time in the saddle, developing that synapse firing cadence - your time in the gym is wasted.

"gym time is wasted" - only dependent on your goals or what you expect to get out of it.

Squatting & deadlifting will improve glute rectruitment and trunk stability whether you are combining that training period with cycling or not. If your goal was only to improve these two factors, then it could be deemed productive.

Something worth noting is that the main function of the musclature in the abdomen (front & back) is for stability/isometric rigidity, to be "static". When training with planks with movning limbs or "bird dogs" you can increase the isometric challenge to these muscles more so than regular simple planks for sure.

But at the same time a movement involving a bilateral articulation of the hips/legs or even arms. Such as a deadlift, squat, or standing press. Can put an even greater stress on these muscles to create a strong isometric contraction. The abdominal stability from this training with an articuation will carry over just the same to a non-articulating challenge such as a normal planks. Because the function is the same, a static/rigid abdomen is both cases.

Round in circles DFP. We need to remember that this is not about general strength training. This is sports specific.
The point here is transition to cycling. If, as a cyclist, your glutes are weak, no one is disputing that deadlifts and squats are not going to recruit gluteal activation. The issue is getting back on the bike and utilising that strength. If you weren't recruiting those fibres before on the bike, the chances are you won't suddenly be sprint champion. You need to change your position on the bike to recruit those fibres.... And retrain the body to accept the new stimulus.

Of course Dan.

Thats why leading S&C coaches for athletes often favour mixed training sessions featuring sports specific skills and strength training in a circuit.

Heres part of an awesome training montage of Werner Gunthor (shot putter) for inspiration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFVhwIy_PU

Interesting watch^^^ I thought he was about to squat that weight at ~1min in lol!

There's some epic "Top Gun" esque music going on in the background there!!

DFP, Pistaboy has got what I think you seem to be struggling with. Namely squats etc will improve glute recruitment in squats etc when doen correctly. However their will not be a carry over to cycling for endurance cyclists, if your not recruiting your glutes do as pistaboy says and change position, work slowly under load mentally activating them etc

Even for sprint cyclists the nueral carry over form weights is very minimal, if not power/olympic lifters would be able to jump on a bike and destroy cycle sprinters.....

As a sprinter you are looking for the strength gains while being careful to do enough on bike work to get some cross over. There are quite a few world class sprinters that dont use the gym these days bar a little bit of core/upper body

Stepping away from the barbell for a second, what do the physios and coaches think about PNF (proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation) stretching?

I'm doing it unassisted (passive stretch - engage agonist - further passive stretch), but only once per muscle, and once per week. I do 2 other static stretching sessions weekly too.

I like it a lot. It seems to be the most comfortable way for me to increase range of motion - and it's less boring than static stretching :D

I found this, and have been following the recommendations for perceived intensity during the active part of the stretch - apparently you get decent returns, but without the injury risk of stronger contractions:

*Sheard & Paine, J Strength Cond Res

         Volume: 24, Issue: 2, Date: 2010 Feb , Pages: 416-21                                                                                                              *

Abstract:

An informal review of literature on the use of postisometric relaxation (PIR) type proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) indicates that the force of contraction requested from the athlete ranges from 10 to 100% of maximum voluntary isometric contraction (MVIC). The purpose of this study was therefore to determine if an optimal contraction intensity to elicit maximum positive change in range of motion (DeltaROM) exists. This research question was tested across a convenience sample of 56 (37 male and 19 female) university athletes. Target contractions during PNF interventions were set at 20, 50, and 100% MVIC. Pre- and post-PNF intervention hip flexion range of motion (ROM) was measured on a unilateral straight leg raise. The target MVIC of 20, 50, and 100% elicited mean pre-post intervention DeltaROM of 8.4, 12.9, and 11.6 degrees , respectively (all p < or = 0.0001). Differences in pre-post intervention DeltaROM between target contraction intensities were also significant (p = 0.016 to < or = 0.0001). A peak DeltaROM of 13.3 degrees was found at a PNF contraction intensity of 64.3% MVIC. **Where optimizing increased ROM in healthy athletes is the desired outcome of PIR-PNF application, coaches and trainers should elicit contraction intensities of approximately 65% MVIC. **

BMMF

i love that style of stretching and think it works well

Agreed. I have used it within sports injury rehab as well as within stroke rehab, and it has fantastic results. There's also something quite pleasant about being on the receiving end of this technique and watching a limb move past your normal expected range!
It gives great feedback to your neural pathways too...

Do you stretch *before *you go for a ride as part of a warm up or do you just jump on the bike and get going? Just interested in peoples' thoughts re how important they consider pre-exercise (cycling) stretching to be.

Pre-ride stretching is okay if it's dynamic*, but typical static stretching has no real benefit, and reduces muscles' ability to generate force. No reduction in likelihood of injury either.

That's the general consensus these days anyway.

*not ballistic

@pistaboy - I first heard about PNF whilst on multidisciplinary placements (I was a trainee speechie).

Can't believe it's taken me almost half a decade to decide to self-implement it.

Pre-ride stretching is okay if it's dynamic*, but typical static stretching has no real benefit, and reduces muscles' ability to generate force.

That's the general consensus these days anyway.

*not ballistic

Ive found contract-relax type stretching lets me go far beyond the ROM that vigorous static stretching will allow. But without any great forced stress on the muscles.

Research actually suggests that range of motion isn't increased more via PNF than static stretching. Where 2 groups have followed each regimen, and then have been 'externally manipulated', measurements are the same (or slightly in favour of static stretching).

But I suppose stretching is a more complex issue than simply 'how far can a limb be pushed in one direction before tissues refuse to budge any further?' Lots of it is about the individual's perception of the stretch, and all the feedback mechanisms involved (golgi apparatus blah blah) i.e. static stretching feels pretty unpleasant unless it's very mild, so you tend to avoid going as 'deep' as you need to for any kind of progress.

I'm rambling.

Any thoughts on why stretching is often the most difficult part of an exercise regime to stick to consistently? It's not cos it's boring as far as I'm concerned I think it's something about it not providing much in the way of immediate feedback in terms of how effective it is being...or something? I dunno but it's something I find myself and lots of other people I've spoken to struggling to stick to doing after every session.

i.e. static stretching feels pretty unpleasant unless it's very mild, so you tend to avoid going as 'deep' as you need to for any kind of progress.

Yeah maybe that's partly what I was getting at in my last post i.e. there's a high cost (pain) to (perceived) benefit ratio with stretching often.

Any thoughts on why stretching is often the most difficult part of an exercise regime to stick to consistently? It's not cos it's boring as far as I'm concerned I think it's something about it not providing much in the way of immediate feedback in terms of how effective it is being...or something? I dunno but it's something I find myself and lots of other people I've spoken to struggling to stick to doing after every session.

You dont need to do much stretching at all with a suitable exercise programme, unless you have specific mobility issues preventing you from doing the exercises.

If by exercise you mean cycling, then I see what you mean. But if your are talking about the gym, then the actual movements, like full squats, deadlifts, push ups, pull ups etc

Will help improve and maintain full ROM mobility. The occasional light stretch when you feel a bit stiff is all you need.

Yeah maybe that's partly what I was getting at in my last post i.e. there's a high cost (pain) to (perceived) benefit ratio with stretching often.

It also helps if you have a goal/function in mind. I want to avoid discomfort in my lower back and glutes during/after intense efforts in the drops or on tribars. Having worked more consistently on stretching my hips, glutes, hamstrings, I'm already seeing very encouraging results.

And perhaps the knowledge that cycling as an activity promotes the shortening of all these muscle groups - which play a large part in your life off the bike too - should be motivation enough to get into the stretching habit...?

Hope that doesn't sound patronising. Lord knows I've been an ambivalent stretcher for much of my life.

I was also reading J.P., J.M. Smoliga, M.J. Brick, J.T. Jolly, S.M. Lephart, and F.H. Fu. Relationship between cycling mechanics and core stability. J. Strength Cond. Res. 21(4):1300–1304. 2007, which suggests that a strong core doesn't magically increase pedalling force capability, but does help pedalling form. Apparently when the core gets fatigued, your pedalling joints (ankles, knees, hips) start to wander further out of alignment, therefore increasing risk of injury, and no doubt reducing efficiency.

That makes A LOT of sense to me. I've been reading some of this and it's heavily physio for me (I'm a massage therapist, I wasn't trained about exercises, I just have been able to figure out how to deal with the results of injuries and notice potential patterns in movement that might be causing weakness and/or overshort muscles.

I'm going to maintain a more rearward position than your average TTer, but I still want to be able to delegate a little more of the work to my quads/the stomp phase of the pedalstroke.

I was thinking about this, too, and this seems strange to me. If by "stomp phase" you mean pressing down, I know you use the quads then a bit, but extension is a hamstring/glute thing, flexion is quads. I get more burn in my quads when I purposefully pull up on the pedals or stand up out of the saddle.

I have really been wanting to work with a physio or sports trainer about how to get more power in cycling, I have a few smaller hills that are still kicking my ass. When I take the train in the morning I'm magically refreshed all day but when I ride in I'm often more tired. There is obviously some combination of amount of calories taken in, riding fixed, gear ratio, how fast I ride, and probably something I don't know about, that is killing my energy levels. I want to get faster, I want to ride more easily, I want to be able to get to the top of Bromley Hill without slowing down as much as I have been, and I want not to collapse on the couch at the end of the day. I've got to go back to geared, especially for winter, but I am still missing a few key components (such as a frickin' 90mm 1" quill stem, that everyone wants and no one has) so can't get it out on the road.

But I suppose stretching is a more complex issue than simply 'how far can a limb be pushed in one direction before tissues refuse to budge any further?'

Assuming the stretches are being done ideally, as well. If you are stretching hams but the pelvis rotates posteriorly then you are losing the benefit of the stretch.

How are you doing your PNF by yourself?

jayloo - how long is your commute in the morning?

@jayloo - I feel like my quads are not strong enough yet at kicking over the top and down (11 o' clock to 3 o' clock). It would be nice to give my glutes some backup :D Have reverted to overgeared work for this.

Regarding PNF, after the initial 20 second stretch, I'm basically contracting the agonist against the stretch for about 5 seconds, then pausing for a second or so till I feel everything settle (that sounds scientific, not), before going into the second static - and deeper - stretch phase.

This is pretty straightforward with some stretches e.g. glute stretches whilst lying down. With others it's a bit more fuzzy e.g. for a seated hamstring stretch, I 'push my heels (and back of knees) into the floor'. I've seen a standing unilateral version with leg raised on a bench, doing the same sort of thing.

Improvising, but not being slapdash or ignoring feedback from my body :)