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Um. Using more muscles= either more power per stroke, or less fatigue for a given work rate, depending on how you want to measure it?
on what evidence do you base these claims?
doing squats slowly will make you good at doing squats slowly, there will be no carry over to cycling from this, its a nueral thing.
doing over geared cycling MAY help you to recruit your muscles more effiently and we are talking sub 60 rpms here with decent enough load
basically if you want to be better at endurance cycling your time is best spent doing that, eg riding a bike and making sure its at a decent intensity too!
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@gregorio - personally I'd not bother with a weight training regime. Spending that time on the bike would be more beneficial.
If you can ride 50-75 miles then I think the Marmotte or the Etape is achieveable for you, but it will take a fair amount of commitment. Training needs to focus on two areas, the endurance you'll need to spend 8 or more hours in the saddle and having the sustainable power to ride up 20 km alpine climbs.
The former is easy, start trying to do one long ride of at least 4 hours every weekend from January onwards and increase that as the weather improves. The latter is a bit more difficult but start doing a 30 minute session, with a 15 minute warm up and warm down, once a week where you ride at what I'd call 'time-trial pace', essentially at a intensity that you can just maintain for that 30 minute period. As your fitness improves you can increase the length of the session to 45 or 60 minutes and/or do it more frequently than once a week.
If you can afford it then I'd strongly recommend a weekend in the Alps 1-2 months before the event you choose to do to give you an idea of what is ahead of you and get a feel for riding long climbs.
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I went up Zoncalon in May this year, all saddle based, no walking.
This made me happy.
I did stop and eat a powerbar at one point, and I'd inflated James' tyre a little while before that, so had a small rest then.
Still I made it to the top, and due to my inability to count/listen I thought that I had 2km further to go than I actually did, so I had quite a lot in the tank which I could have used to push up a lot faster.
Anyway- I'm going to do it again next May, and this time round I want to go up in one hit, and in a straight line (I zig-zagged this year).
Then in 2012 I might try to set a decent time!
Anyway, what sort of riding/training should I be doing in order that I can (as Hippy would say) smash it up a 22% 10km climb?
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this has no carry over to cycling though
Bit strong to say "no" there is obviously some. Maybe minute and inconsequential, but theres gotta be some. Even for long distance road cycling.
I for one can feel strong recruitment of glutes, especially when climbing since I started weight training. I remember reading an abstract of some research which said that the best road cyclists had superior glute recruitment. If I remember where I saw it Ill post it.
Also the leg-to-trunk rigidity (or "core stability" if you like) built from squatting would surely make pedalling at least in some situations, more efficient.
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@gregorio - personally I'd not bother with a weight training regime. Spending that time on the bike would be more beneficial.
If you can ride 50-75 miles then I think the Marmotte or the Etape is achieveable for you, but it will take a fair amount of commitment. Training needs to focus on two areas, the endurance you'll need to spend 8 or more hours in the saddle and having the sustainable power to ride up 20 km alpine climbs.
The former is easy, start trying to do one long ride of at least 4 hours every weekend from January onwards and increase that as the weather improves. The latter is a bit more difficult but start doing a 30 minute session, with a 15 minute warm up and warm down, once a week where you ride at what I'd call 'time-trial pace', essentially at a intensity that you can just maintain for that 30 minute period. As your fitness improves you can increase the length of the session to 45 or 60 minutes and/or do it more frequently than once a week.
If you can afford it then I'd strongly recommend a weekend in the Alps 1-2 months before the event you choose to do to give you an idea of what is ahead of you and get a feel for riding long climbs.
Cheers for that andyp-very helpful to have that blueprint to work from. Now I just need to figure out where I'll be living and take it from there... Thinking about commiting to the Etape Caledonia and possibly one more sportive like the one on Skye before the etape proper (or marmotte) to make sure I aint freakin out before it and to ensure adequate levels of motivation... I may also promise myself a nice new steed to do the deed too ;)
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Bit strong to say "no" there is obviously some. Maybe minute and inconsequential, but theres gotta be some. Even for long distance road cycling.
I for one can feel strong recruitment of glutes, especially when climbing since I started weight training. I remember reading an abstract of some research which said that the best road cyclists had superior glute recruitment. If I remember where I saw it Ill post it.
Also the leg-to-trunk rigidity (or "core stability" if you like) built from squatting would surely make pedalling at least in some situations, more efficient.
why must there be some?
at most in an untrained person there might be the slight benefit of actually exercising
as for the stability issue the forces involved in endurance cycling are so low its really not a big factor, some basic core work like planks will more than take care of this
if you want to become more efficent on a bike, ride a bike! its really that simple. the neural cross over from weights just wont effect pedalling efficency
the only possibly benefits I can see are to correct muscle imbalences from poor posture/previous injuries. Hypertrophy really isnt a benefit for endurance cyclists
as for glute recruitment, yes thats correct, however that doesnt mean their superior technique can be copied through weight lifting. The chances are you "feel" you glutes more now after weights due to either having better body awareness or from some residual fatigue/doms
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the only possibly benefits I can see are to correct muscle imbalences from poor posture/previous injuries. Hypertrophy really isnt a benefit for endurance cyclists
The thread is called "cycle related......etc" not endurance cycle related. So while there may be less benefit from strength training for the endurance cyclist the track cyclist benefits from it much more so. Having said that you will find pro road riders doing weights and they've got the best advisors coaching them so i doubt they'd be advised to train in a gym with weights etc if it wasn't any benefit.
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When Lee talks about endurance cyclists, I think he means track riders who focus on events like the individual pursuit, team pursuit, points races, scratch races etc, rather than sportive riders.
As for pro riders, they are full time athletes so need to ensure their body is in peak condition. They use weights to build core strength in the off season, they don't continue that work through to the racing season.
Can we have a moratorium on citing pro cyclists as role models for amateur riders please, as you're not comparing like with like.
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When Lee talks about endurance cyclists, I think he means track riders who focus on events like the individual pursuit, team pursuit, points races, scratch races etc, rather than sportive riders.
As for pro riders, they are full time athletes so need to ensure their body is in peak condition. They use weights to build core strength in the off season, they don't continue that work through to the racing season.
Can we have a moratorium on citing pro cyclists as role models for amateur riders please, as you're not comparing like with like.
Certainly, whilst noting that André Greipel is a keen advocate of the gym :-)
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Interview with HTC's 'core guru' with some core exercises for non-pro's thrown in from the comic a while ago, and more exercises from a Procycling article on same.
http://www.koerperwerk.com/downloads/ProCycling.pdf
http://www.koerperwerk.com/downloads/cycling_weekly_0309.pdf -
i have to back up babydinotrackboy with all of his comments.
Gregorio - its worth noting, that your position on your bike could well benefit from being tweaked, to unleash further potential.
For example, when i fatigue on the bike, i tend to creep forward on my saddle, point my toes a lot more, and almost hunch my shoulders up, whilst flexing forward.... my performance becomes poor, regardless of how much I can squat, deadlift or clean. Its usually the fact that i am unable to fully inflate my lungs that slows me down.... -
Interview with HTC's 'core guru' with some core exercises for non-pro's thrown in from the comic a while ago, and more exercises from a Procycling article on same.
http://www.koerperwerk.com/downloads/ProCycling.pdf
http://www.koerperwerk.com/downloads/cycling_weekly_0309.pdfI do all of that and more 3-4 days a week as part of Capoeira.
Another good one for the hamstrings is, go to the second position of the 'Hand walk' and then walk (with your legs) straight legged (all fours, straight arm straight leg) the length of the room, then back without turning round.
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@andyp - I thought the Garmin lot did loads of year round non-bike maintenance stuff?
http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/exercise/sports/4294/christian_vande_velde_cycling_workout.html
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The thread is called "cycle related......etc" not endurance cycle related. So while there may be less benefit from strength training for the endurance cyclist the track cyclist benefits from it much more so. Having said that you will find pro road riders doing weights and they've got the best advisors coaching them so i doubt they'd be advised to train in a gym with weights etc if it wasn't any benefit.
I am saying there is no evidence to say there is ANY benefit to endurance cyclists from weight training. Endurance means anything longer than a kilo by the way...
As for it must be great because the pros do it, what a load of crap. Many great athletes succeed despite the training they do for the simple reason they are very gifted. And don't assume that the coaching they get is something magical either...
If you want to train with weights go for it, have fun enjoy whatever training you want to do, however if you want to be quicker on a bike and ESPCIALLY if you have limited time just stick to riding the bike.
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So based on the advice around Planks as sufficient to improve core strength is the approach of this video fairly near the mark?
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Certainly, whilst noting that André Greipel is a keen advocate of the gym :-)
And the faster Mark Cavendish isnt...
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^but he's a sprinter, so is probably lying.
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Cycling-Related Strength & Conditioning
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@BringMeMyFix
this has no carry over to cycling though