A solution to NOT drill your track forks and have a normal front brake nonetheless

Difference being that star nuts weren't designed to have much load on them. They certainly weren't designed to resist braking force.
A wedge will be more able to take the tightening that this idea requires.

IMO.

Designed for a frame which I don't have anymore.

you sold the raleigh?

that was the same question i tear jerkingly croaked at the computer screen :-(

Difference being that star nuts weren't designed to have much load on them. They certainly weren't designed to resist braking force.
A wedge will be more able to take the tightening that this idea requires.

IMO.

Well, as said: it's not that important at the moment, as my final design will look the same in both cases and everyone then can choose on their own if they prefer starnut or expander/wedge.

jetski

And if you try and tighten a star nut up they usually fail. Never get to that point when loading a headset but as a test try tightening up an end cap with the forks out of the bike and see how easily the threaded part leaves the rest of the start nut behind. Or maybe I just had a particularly weak star nut!

Difference being that star nuts weren't designed to have much load on them. They certainly weren't designed to resist braking force.
A wedge will be more able to take the tightening that this idea requires.

IMO.

Of course.
(theoretically) Attach some handlebars to the SFN bolt and apply pressure one way or the other, the SFN will move immediately and likely bend over in the steerer.

apply the same pressure on a quill stem...

of course it will be ok, because it's made to take those forces.

A good solution would be an expander bolt or wedge system that bolts from the higher part inside the steerer (just under your stem) with a long bolt going down to a nut/bung arrangement which holds the brake bracket securely into the tube at the fork crown.

Thing is, the whole situation is a faff, a solution to a problem which doesn't really exist. There are clamp on brakes for keirin frames and proper forks designed for use with brakes if that's what you want to use.

Thing is, the whole situation is a faff, a solution to a problem which doesn't really exist. There are clamp on brakes for keirin frames and proper forks designed for use with brakes if that's what you want to use.

Disagree. It IS a problem and there IS a solution, so why complain?

Except the solution is to buy a bike that's suitable for the purpose you want it for, or buy a suitable fork. The solution isn't insisting SFNs have properties they were never designed or made to have.

I do not insist on anything, I said twice that I will test both starnut and expander and then share the experience.

By the way, your comparison above (handlebars to starnut) is technically wrong as you can't really tension the stem properly against the headset (only if you put it to the very lowest position, and even then the tension is not distributed evenly).

I wasn't talking about tensioning headsets, I was talking about putting sideways leverage on the two types of proposed fixings in question, buy using an obvious comparison. Hence the "theoretically" bit.

Attaching bars to a SFN bolt is technically impossible unless you weld/gaffa tape/ziptie them.

Disagree. It IS a problem and there IS a solution, so why complain?

There's a lots of solution to your problem;

Different fork.
Drill a hole.
Keirin removable brakes.
Drum brakes.

All those solution work well, even the drum one which my grandfather use to ride to/from the track.

I'll ask you this;

What advantage does the wedge system have over the other solution?

I'll ask you this;

What advantage does the wedge system have over the other solution?

Oh come now Ed i know you are a bit slow off the mark sometimes but do you really not know the answer to that question?

:-)

I wasn't talking about tensioning headsets, I was talking about putting sideways leverage on the two types of proposed fixings in question, buy using an obvious comparison. Hence the "theoretically" bit.

Attaching bars to a SFN bolt is technically impossible unless you weld/gaffa tape/ziptie them.

I know that you meant "handlebars+stem" instead of just handlebars, that was clear, nonetheless the comparison makes no sense, because there is nothing, no ridge or anything else on a normal stem that stops it from sinking deeper when you start tightening the bolt (but the stem curve itself on the top, but that'd be, as said, uneven distribution).

There's a lots of solution to your problem;

Different fork.
Drill a hole.
Keirin removable brakes.
Drum brakes.

All those solution work well, even the drum one which my grandfather use to ride to/from the track.

I'll ask you this;

What advantage does the wedge system have over the other solution?

different fork: there are a gazillion reasons why you want to keep your fork.
drill a hole: no.
keirin removable brakes: large, bulky, just not nice
drum brakes: no.

I do know a better solution than the keirin removable brakes which many in this thread already liked and welcomed, I will test it, I will share the experience.

I know that you meant "handlebars+stem" instead of just handlebars, that was clear, nonetheless the comparison makes no sense, because there is nothing, no ridge or anything else on a normal stem that stops it from sinking deeper when you start tightening the bolt (but the stem curve itself on the top, but that'd be, as said, uneven distribution).

any competent bike owner/mechanic knows you have at least 1 small spacer under the stem.

you are picking at the anus of an argument. your fingernails are dirty. now wash you hands and go and think about how silly you have been.

You're still not getting it.
I read what RPM said to just mean if you attached ANYTHING to the star nut bolt which would allow you to exert leverage on it, it would move easily as it wasn't designed for anything more than applying a pretty small amount of vertical pressure onto the headset.

You're still not getting it.
I read what RPM said to just mean if you attached ANYTHING to the star nut bolt which would allow you to exert leverage on it, it would move easily as it wasn't designed for anything more than applying a pretty small amount of vertical pressure onto the headset.

^this.

Maybe I was over complicating things.

For some reason, this thread has generated far more discussion than it warrants, I am off to count the snails in the backyard.

You're still not getting it.
I read what RPM said to just mean if you attached ANYTHING to the star nut bolt which would allow you to exert leverage on it, it would move easily as it wasn't designed for anything more than applying a pretty small amount of vertical pressure onto the headset.

I do get that very well and it does not matter at the moment, both starnut and expander need to be tried in reality before any judgement is made. I do not welcome RPMs "give up before testing attitude" when there are many people here who like the idea and presumably, *both *starnut and expander versions will actually do fine.

any competent bike owner/mechanic knows you have at least 1 small spacer under the stem.

you are picking at the anus of an argument. your fingernails are dirty. now wash you hands and go and think about how silly you have been.

this is one of the few debates/discussions on this forum which has not descended into name calling... a nice change

...

I do get that very well

Not judging by this.

I know that you meant "handlebars+stem" instead of just handlebars, that was clear, nonetheless the comparison makes no sense, because there is nothing, no ridge or anything else on a normal stem that stops it from sinking deeper when you start tightening the bolt (but the stem curve itself on the top, but that'd be, as said, uneven distribution).

I look forward to seeing the next version you spoke of though.

i never called you a name Magnus Jetski. apart from just then.<<<<

different fork: there are a gazillion reasons why you want to keep your fork.
drill a hole: no.
keirin removable brakes: large, bulky, just not nice
drum brakes: no.

I do know a better solution than the keirin removable brakes which many in this thread already liked and welcomed, I will test it, I will share the experience.

Finding a fork that have the same (or similar) rake as the current one you have isn't diffcuilt, or his name isn't Hillary Stone.

drilling a hole is always an option.

keirin brake - just not nice for what? AFAIK, it work, it function just what it said on the tin, and it's removable.

drum brake, not as powerful as road brake, but it's up there with ease of removal.

I look forward to seeing the next version you spoke of though.

Alright, will post an image tomorrow.

jetski

Will you be making it yourself? I mean do you have access to the right equipment, or are you just designing then getting it made elsewhere?

Will you be making it yourself? I mean do you have access to the right equipment, or are you just designing then getting it made elsewhere?

Yes, will do the prototype myself, but for tomorrow it will be only cad/rhino work. I will try to optimize it towards being CNC-friendly.

So you're going for machined aluminium construction?