New TfL's HGV's can't see you for s*** poster

^ Kind of like the shared space theory right?

Anyone else see the coverage on HGVs turning left and bicycle safety on BBC breakfast about 7.30? On the one hand, some much needed publicity for an important issue. Apparently a system of sensors and cameras to alert the driver to pedestrians/cyclists/motorists in their blind spots only costs about £700.

Disappointingly a woman representing the Road Hauliers Association was bizarrely dead set against it, despite the fact that it will no doubt save cyclists' lives, and by extension save the livelihood of HGV drivers who otherwise face their lives being ruined by the consequences of running down a cyclist.

I can understand (as an extension of human selfishness), though totally don't condone, the fact that drivers don't necessarily see the issue in the same way as cyclists, but surely just from a pragmatic point of view advances which make accidents less likely are in everyones interests.

Thoughts?

First thought is that even if a driver runs over a cyclist it will have no impact on his livelihood. I haven't seen the piece, but I will watch it later, but I know that the RHA have been hideously defensive because to support these initiatives they firstly have to admit they share the blame (they routinely assume the cyclist is to blame) and they will possible incur liability if there is a fatality and the equipment is defective but the driver was not otherwise to blame.
I staggers me that this is even needed.
I have driven lorries including the type most associated with these accidents, and it is really easy to keep track of what is on the outside of the lorry if you use reasonable amounts of concentration. It is chatting on the CB radio, texting, wolf whistling, checking manifests and maps while stopped that is the problem. I always had cyclists around, and used to look to make sure it was clear before turning left. The mirrors I had at the time were more than adequate to see what was there, they just had to be used.
As soon as a driver comes to a stop they do all sorts of non driving activities. Control of the vehicle doesn't cease when stopped at lights, that is at least partly to blame

Spot on, adroit. Many professional drivers seem to think that any time they are not driving on an open road (crawling along in a queue, stopped at lights etc) is time out from driving, and free for phone/map etc as you suggest. I understand that, in private cars, TV reception is allowed for the time a vehicle is not actually moving. I was gobsmacked by that one.

I followed a chap down the Walworth road the other day- he was driving a 3 series BMW.

He had fitted an aftermarket TV/DVD system, and was watching a Jet Lee movie the whole way from E&C to Camberwell.

I followed a chap down the Walworth road the other day- he was driving a 3 series BMW.

He had fitted an aftermarket TV/DVD system, and was watching a Jet Lee movie the whole way from E&C to Camberwell.

you should have brought the movie to life for him

Then I'd have missed the end of the film

I followed a bloke who was cycling and watching a DVD playing in the car in front, It was so selfish, I couldn't see the screen at all.

You should lean into the window and say "Oooh, this is a good bit. That guy turns out to be the murderer"

I had a mouth full of popcorn otherwise I would have done

The LCC calls for all lorries to be fitted with the best mirrors, cameras and sensors as standard.

http://www.no-more-lethal-lorries.org.uk/

Oliver
LCC

What's that got to do with watching films?

the camera's monitor has a built in dvd player

Thoughts?

My thoughts on the 'cyclist detector' equipment are:

What is the rate of false positives?
What is the rate of false negatives?

If there are too many false positives, drivers will tend to ignore the beeping and turn anyway, killing the cyclist.

If there are* any *false negatives and the driver is relying on the equipment instead of just LOOKING WHERE HE'S FUCKING GOING, that's another dead cyclist.

It's a technological non-solution to a problem which could be easily solved by lorry drivers actually giving a fuck about another human being.

Anyone seen the new awful one of a HGV top down view saying that cyclist should stay behind it?

fucking awful, need to find an online version of it and paint a cycle lane next to it to illustrate how awful it is.

@Ed

That's the one Jack, any chance there's a higher resolution version of it?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/14799.aspx

Both new and experienced cyclists have been killed in collisions with lorries. This often happens when a lorry turns left, hitting a cyclist on the nearside, or when cyclists stop too close to the front of a stopped lorry.

Wow, talk about blaming the cyclists.

cough Jake cough. Afraid not, I can't find one anywhere.

Don't worry I know it's Jack, can't find it either.

Anyone seen the new awful one of a HGV top down view saying that cyclist should stay behind it?

fucking awful, need to find an online version of it and paint a cycle lane next to it to illustrate how awful it is.
I don't understand your point Ed. What would a drawing out a cycle lane achieve?

simply to produced a point that no matter how many poster they'll make, cyclists will always go on the inside due to the placement of the cycle lane/feeder.

Ed has a good point; that picture on a road with a cycle lane/ASL would look absurdly contradictory.
I think the difficulty is in getting a more complex point (that there are times when it is ok to use a cycle lane/ASL and times when it is not) across in a graphic way. Maybe this photo poster will make some people think about where they position themselves on the road but infrastructure, as Ed points out, seems to undermine it.

@Ed

Totally fucking pointless as the powers that be see fit to squander millions on cycle lanes not fit for purpose that go over the mouth of junctions to the left yet guide cyclists straight over said junctions.

Just ride Mile End/Whitechapel road to see what I (we) mean. People don't like/or are incapable of thinking for themselves at the best of times putting the magic blue/green stuff there and you're asking for trouble.