New TfL's HGV's can't see you for s*** poster

There are plenty of signs on HGVs saying just that already. Obviously, they could always be improved upon.

There are plenty of signs on HGVs saying just that already. Obviously, they could always be improved upon.

My point was they should be on all of them, and of a standard design.

I had to warn a woman the other day who kept trying to scoot inside a massive bulk carrier on Finborough rd the other day, the vehicle had no such sign, but might have made her think a bit more if it had.

Of course it's not going to stop poor and dangerous driving, but as I said there's no good reason* not *to make it mandatory.

Ahh yes, maybe it needs to be more blunt like:

"Unless you plan to die today, don't even think about coming up this side."

The 'suicide' one is wrong: it's not suicide if the driver does not look in his mirror or is on the phone or drunk. It puts the blame unquestioningly on the cyclist and that's not acceptable. Cyclists may die because of their ignorance of the dangers of going up the inside of HGVs but ignorance is not an act of volition.

That's another reason why I call for standardisation. It's important to remember that signs and mirrors do not exonerate a driver who is at fault.

I was working at the Lambeth HGV awareness thing last Friday and the chap talking to people in the cab had had cycle training. He said he learned more in 4 hours of that than he had in 20 years of cycling in London. It should be compulsory for all HGV drivers.

And not being a complete fucking shitbrain should be compulsory for all drivers of any vehicle. But is it?

No, I saw a woman today, in a van, bombing down a residential street about 40 in a 20 limit, past a school whilst holding her phone in both hands and texting. More people need to loose their licences and right quick.

Ha! I had a first on Wednesday; going over Tower Bridge and a man in a car was using an i-pad on his lap.

TBH I got my laptop out and posted on the forum whilst stationary on the M4 once. (waiting for a car fire to be cleared) but I would hope discretion wins the day.

^euph?

I was working at the Lambeth HGV awareness thing last Friday and the chap talking to people in the cab had had cycle training. He said he learned more in 4 hours of that than he had in 20 years of cycling in London. It should be compulsory for all HGV drivers.

20 years of driving?

No, cycling: c-y-c-l-i-n-g, *cycling

*He's been cycling in London for 20yrs as well as being an HGV driver.

^euph?

Nah, Truph.

Could be a good one though

The 'suicide' one is wrong: it's not suicide if the driver does not look in his mirror or is on the phone or drunk. It puts the blame unquestioningly on the cyclist and that's not acceptable. Cyclists may die because of their ignorance of the dangers of going up the inside of HGVs but ignorance is not an act of volition.

Totally agree, but many inexperienced cyclists just don't get how serious the dangers are when they just see an advisory-type notice, unfortunately. I'm not trying to pass (pre?)accountability to anyone, but I can see how that would be misinterpreted (or potentially used in that way should there be an incident with a warning like that).

Suicide sounds about right to me. If anything, I think it is the cyclist 'fault' (if you want to put it that way) for undertaking because the driver can't see you in their mirrors. What do you want the driver to do? Get out and run round the side and check for bicycles before making any turns? I think the responsibility lies with the cyclist to pass on the other side.

Not necessarily, here's one scenario:

An HGV pulls up to the lights and it goes red after he ('he' for the sake of this example) has crossed the stop line but chooses not to go because there is a back up of traffic at the turn, but is now in the ASL (and legally allowed).

An inexperienced cyclist follows a cycle lane up the left to the ASL but stays in the ASL (where the driver can't see him). While coming up the side the HGV driver turns the indicator on to signal a left turn. But the cyclist is infront of the indicators so doesn't see it.

Light goes green and cyclist goes starts riding to go straight, not realising he's completely in the driver's blind spot...

Point is that cycle lanes misdirect inexperienced cyclists into dangerous situations, because they are painted on the road and they may think that they're somehow 'safe'.

answer: better cycle lanes. a physical obstacle between the cycle lane and the traffic lane, coming up to the lights and at the lights. (bollards). a cycle lane that's wide enough for cyclists to bunch up. a green light for cyclists that happens a few seconds before the green for motor traffic (and perhaps goes red when the left for traffic is green). a clear continuation of the cycle lane across the junction (painted on the road) so that the presence of cyclists is clear.

answer: better cycle lanes. a physical obstacle between the cycle lane and the traffic lane, coming up to the lights and at the lights. (bollards). a cycle lane that's wide enough for cyclists to bunch up. a green light for cyclists that happens a few seconds before the green for motor traffic (and perhaps goes red when the left for traffic is green). a clear continuation of the cycle lane across the junction (painted on the road) so that the presence of cyclists is clear.

there's still a problem that cycle lane still encourage people to undertake vehicles, even if it's quite wide.

Secondly, the power is down to the HGV drivers, they have the ability to prevent the death of a cyclists.

I see what you're saying Econodog, Chameleon and Ed.

All i'm saying is that there's only so much a lorry driver can do in that situation. If he can't see you it's because the cyclist has actively ridden into his blind spot. Educating cyclists to this fact and having mandatory standardised blind spot warning signs on the back of lorrys and large vehicles would no doubt help to prevent deaths. It's the cylists that are riding into the danger zone and IMO not the drivers fault when things gets fatal. The cyclist has the ability to not put themselves in that position.

have you read this thread?

thomas, when I talked to a HGV drivers, they often mentioned that it's not the amount of safety equipment that'll help prevent cyclist getting killed, but the driving standard.

if driven properly, HGV shouldn't result in the death of cyclist.

an example would be Will's post;

I was working at the Lambeth HGV awareness thing last Friday and the chap talking to people in the cab had had cycle training. He said he learned more in 4 hours of that than he had in 20 years of cycling in London. It should be compulsory for all HGV drivers.

a good drivers make a huge difference than adding all sort of mirrors and electronic gimbots, if we get driving instructor to take cycle training as compulsory, then it would make a massive difference when the driving instructor teach the trainee on how to work with cyclists on the road beside the usual lesson.

No, cycling: c-y-c-l-i-n-g, *cycling

*He's been cycling in London for 20yrs as well as being an HGV driver.

ok.. so he's been cycling 20 years, he knows the cyclists's perspective already (unlike most hgv drivers..).... so what more did the cycle training tell him (i can understand how it would be useful to the hgv drivers who don't cycle..)?

thomas, when I talked to a HGV drivers, they often mentioned that it's not the amount of safety equipment that'll help prevent cyclist getting killed, but the driving standard.

if driven properly, HGV shouldn't result in the death of cyclist.

an example would be Will's post;

a good drivers make a huge difference than adding all sort of mirrors and electronic gimbots, if we get driving instructor to take cycle training as compulsory, then it would make a massive difference when the driving instructor teach the trainee on how to work with cyclists on the road beside the usual lesson.

the problem is, there will always be some bad/incompetent/badly trained/tired drivers on the road. pay is too low, and there probably aren't enough good drivers to go round.

you can engineer out conflict,

YouTube - Peace breaks out between cyclists and drivers

even where there's much less space than this, the same basic structure can be used. but you're right. the skinny little cycle lane up the inside at the junction is much more dangerous than nothing at all.

Copenhagen have cycle lane, but even with their law and mode of transport, the cyclists still have the same risk of HGV turning in their path, matter of fact, it's a big issue in Copenhagen like in London.

Cycle lane isn't a solution, what about road without them?

"give them cycle path and they'll take it without skill" of which I witnesses a lots in Copenhagen.