Weight / Fat loss

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I'm not going to read back to see if this has been explained, but to help people understand how weight control works I will say this:

In order for weight control to be effective, you need to address three things:
1 regular exercise*
2 diet (content and volume)
3 diet (timing)

You can control weight with one or two of the above, but it's not going to be optimal. Simply changing what you eat isn't enough, neither is taking up exercise whilst eating a poor diet at the wrong times.

*regarding exercise intensity and fat mobilisation: Up to date scientific evidence suggests that fat mobilisation occurs at an optimal rate at different intensities in different people (no surprise there) over a fairly broad range. However, exercise professionals will still recommend exercise in an aerobic capacity for weight control in order to address the cardiovascular benefits. An ideal programme of exercise should include aerobic exercise and resistance training, to ensure lean muscle promotion and maintenance of bone density.
It's worth bearing in mind that due to its nature, high intensity exercise is more effective when carried out by those who have already attained a good level of aerobic fitness. There is also a requirement for far more recovery after high intensity training than from moderate training.

In layman's terms, we wouldn't tell a fat man to go and do something which is likely to give him cardiac arrest.

Spoilsport

The bulk of the protein is in the white. No point taking on all the yolks.

Egg white omlette with 4 whites and 1 yolk is still fuck all...

But aren't you worried about the cholesterol?

I'm actually bulking up, this just seemed the most obvious thread. My concern was the health side, ^ Is that silly?

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Is this an obscure Sachsen dialect joke?

No, I just flipped the 'p's upside down.

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Oh sweet, wonderful buckie.

What's the current thinking on eggs? Should I be separating out the yolks? So many conflicting opnions. I eat 3-4 a day I guess

If you never got the hint from the troll faces. The dietary cholesterol thing is a very old fashioned concern.

Think of the poor chickens before you go wasting yolks.

The bulk of the protein is in the white. No point taking on all the yolks.

No, 45% of the egg's protein is in the yolk.

Without referring everyone back to my post, those wishing to 'bulk up' need to look at the timing of their calorific intake as well as the content. Also consider that 4 eggs is approximately the same protein content as one scoop of a popular protein powder supplement or one small can of tuna.

Chugging a ton of protein first thing in the morning or before exercise won't be as effective as the right amount after training as the exercise needs fuel which comes from carbs, these should be the main focus of your diet before training and to a certain extent after. A slow release protein one hour before sleep is excellent though.

Some body builders enthuse about taking on as much protein as possible and there's a lot of products which encourage you to do so, however, it's the volume and intensity of your weight training which promotes muscle hypertrophy. What you take on to replenish the muscle's glycogen stores may be more effective if it includes more carbohydrate. Check out anything related to "the performance diet"

This is fairly accurate and up to date at a glance:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/sportsnutrition/a/HighProteinDiet.htm

Do you feel I should be taking protein shakes on my days off from weight training to keep my calories up/ aid recovery or just stick to gulping them post workout?

Do you feel I should be taking protein shakes on my days off from weight training to keep my calories up/ aid recovery or just stick to gulping them post workout?

They are most useful post workout, especially in conjuction with some carbs. This will get the protein where it needs to be ASAP. Avoid protein powders which include bulking agents (fat and sugar usually) as they are a waste of money. Instead just have something with simple carbs and no fat with you PWO protein. Say, a couple bananas. Then have a proper meal when you get home from training.

You should not be relying on protein shakes for "calories" for those, go enjoy the wonderful plethora of foods out there. T

If you are struggling to fit enough protein in your food intake (about 200g) then using protein supplement can be useful everyday.

I notice the spreadsheet is for actual kg loss. Is this really a good measurement ? I'm tracking my waist size instead of my weight. Well guess I'll add myself to the list anyway, but I don't expect to see much weight loss.

They are most useful post workout, especially in conjuction with some carbs. This will get the protein where it needs to be ASAP. Avoid protein powders which include bulking agents (fat and sugar usually) as they are a waste of money. Instead just have something with simple carbs and no fat with you PWO protein. Say, a couple bananas. Then have a proper meal when you get home from training.

You should not be relying on protein shakes for "calories" for those, go enjoy the wonderful plethora of foods out there. T

If you are struggling to fit enough protein in your food intake (about 200g) then using protein supplement can be useful everyday.

Thanks for the reply. I struggle to get anywhere near that amount of protein in a day which is why I'm a bit on the thin side plus i enjoy cardio (sports/cycling/skipping etc) but it doesn't help my cause. 8 years ago I got really gym obsessed, protein shakes + l-glutamine + a whole chicken a day and it took a year to put on a stone and robbed me of the pleasure of eating, it was a chore eating every 2.5 hours (not to mention the constipation). I then got salmonella poisoning and lost 1.5 stone in two weeks, quit the gym and took up boozing and smoking again.
This time my approach is more balanced with long term goals but at 6'2" and only 11.5 stone it's going to require serious dedication, bonus is I get to eat free at work so I stuff my face at every opportunity!

You don't need any more than 1.7-1.8 grams of protein per Kg of body weight.
200g for you would be wasted and your digestive system will be wasting valuable resources breaking it down.
At 11.5 stone you should be looking at around 130g a day.

Muscle glycogen lost during workout is most effectively replenished directly after exercise, so fruit juice or something with sugars (natural is best) can be taken in at this point.

A little known secret is the fact that a number of pro athletes drink cola after training/racing. An efficient and reliable way to get that glucose in.

I've heard it's a aacket of Haribos.

You don't need any more than 1.7-1.8 grams of protein per Kg of body weight.
200g for you would be wasted and your digestive system will be wasting valuable resources breaking it down.
At 11.5 stone you should be looking at around 130g a day.

There is obviously a strong case of diminishing returns with protein intake. But 200g for someone over 6ft tall is a very reasonable amount, even if they do not wish to be "swole" but merely athletic.

The classic formula is 1g per lb of of desired bodyweight. I believe this is based on some 1970's soviet science but I'll be damned if I can find the source.
Many people like to go over, but I reckon to benefit from the ridiculously large amounts some people intake (like professional strongmen who intake more like 600g) you need to be on a pile of PED's and have a superhuman digestive system.

I have also seen the modern info suggesting 1.8g per kg of bodyweight. I saw it here;
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/basics/protein_-_how_much

But again, its missing the scientific data to back it up.
By the old 1g per lb of bodyweight, my 200g recommendation would be for a 90kg bodyweight. Now, to me 90kg at 6'2" sounds skinny. To be 'swole' inchpincher should be looking at 110kg.

With the modern rule;
1.8 x 110 = 198g

Old Rule;
1 x 242.5 = 243g

So I think my recommendation of 200g is most appropriate. Dont forget that someone of mediocre genetics will not lean out and get as muscular as the elite athletes (genetic freaks) that the science was probably based on. So more protein can only be good, but you need to strike the balance between economy and diminishing returns.
,

A little known secret is the fact that a number of pro athletes drink cola after training/racing. An efficient and reliable way to get that glucose in.

Benedikt magnusson has been known to sip coke in between his world record deadlifts.

Bear in mind that for endurance type athletes, regular coke is probably a bad idea due to its effect of leaching minerals out of your bones and causing osteoporosis.

Thanks for the reply. I struggle to get anywhere near that amount of protein in a day which is why I'm a bit on the thin side plus i enjoy cardio (sports/cycling/skipping etc) but it doesn't help my cause. 8 years ago I got really gym obsessed, protein shakes + l-glutamine + a whole chicken a day and it took a year to put on a stone and robbed me of the pleasure of eating, it was a chore eating every 2.5 hours (not to mention the constipation). I then got salmonella poisoning and lost 1.5 stone in two weeks, quit the gym and took up boozing and smoking again.
This time my approach is more balanced with long term goals but at 6'2" and only 11.5 stone it's going to require serious dedication, bonus is I get to eat free at work so I stuff my face at every opportunity!

I think you went around this totally the wrong way. All that chicken breasts & brocolli nonsense the bodybuilding gaylords do?

EAT REAL FOOD! Learn to love meat and dairy. Do not shy away from fat. If you want to put some mass on that gangly 6'2" frame of yours. You should commence a progressively challenging weight training regimen involving, Squats, Deadlifts and Bench Press. And try to intake 5000kcal per day. its not forever, but will get you big faster than steroids. Yes you will gain fat with your muscle, but easy to lose afterwards.

Before you wince at the calorie count, remember that a hard working athlete can consume in the Region of 12000 kcal a day and still be skinny & lean.
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/13/the-michael-phelps-diet-dont-try-it-at-home/
You need a surplus to grow. If you go for it, you will experience something akin to a second puberty.

78.5kg, I give up.

Thank you dfp and rpm for your considered posts. From that Phelps article I would say his body is akin to my aspirations, he's 6'3" and roughly 90kg, any heavier i struggle to imagine. I'm wary of the deadlift as I have a re-occurring lower back strain from poor technique with this exercise, maybe when my lower back is stronger I will attempt. I have a good friend who has donated his freestanding dip machine to my expanding gym (set of selectech dumbells, adjustable incline bench, rowing machine and maize punch bag) and he swears this changed his body shape within a year.

I've just realised this thread is probably not the right one for my workout ramblings, apologies for the hijack.

Maybe there should be a workout thread for this kind of chat, since many of you on here seem to have extensive gym routines and shizz. Not that I mind reading it on here or anything, but it crops up often enough for there to be the potential for a really in depth thread about it.

You should commence a progressively challenging weight training regimen involving, Squats, Deadlifts and Bench Press.

Google stronglifts for an example