Weight / Fat loss

I do not have the time to read the whole thread but would recommend to anyone trying to lose weight to move to a 'nutritionally balanced' (i.e. don't just eat loads of cheese instead) vegetarian diet (vegan, with the right nutritional balance, would be even better). I am not going to back this up with lots of info I found on the internet so do with this what you like.

Henry, I know you are now basically a vegetarian and this is a great move; combined with less booze you can't go wrong.

yeah the vegetarian diet actually has been great.
It took a falter when I went round to my vegetarian girlfriends house, all ready to surprise her with the news i was a veggie too, when she pulled out a specially roasted (she'd worn surgical gloves!) Topside of beef with all the sides.
but that was last weekend.
Now I am a 'veggie' once again, although fish has remained, because she needs it in her diet or she will get ill.

this thread has turned into quite a monster and I will read through it all later when I have a bit more time...
But thanks for all the responses PM's and other stuff.
I think there will be a LFGSS food diary set up so that we can help each other out, if anyone wants to join...
and maybe a few secret drinking reductions:
Banning Alcohol is NOT the Solution, I almost guarantee if you go this route you will fail and falter.

Also- a bit of my background. I am highly obsessive about nutrition, and especially the science- the advice I've read here has been hit and miss.
You should, technically NOT drink water WHILST eating. instead of a snack its ok, but whilst eating not so.

I have some more stuff to post but will do so later after some thought...
and research.
did I mention i'm obsessed about the science?

yeah the vegetarian diet actually has been great.
It took a falter when I went round to my vegetarian girlfriends house, all ready to surprise her with the news i was a veggie too, when she pulled out a specially roasted (she'd worn surgical gloves!) Topside of beef with all the sides.
...

Ha, no way could you refuse a lovingly prepared topside...one last feast before the famine ;-)

ridiculous, huh?
it was fucking good too- i was literally speechless when I got there!

many people put on weight without realising, I know, I did, and do almost every christmas! but I managed to lose 2 stone in 3 months by just cutting out bread and pasta, and by drinking 2.5l of water a day, I think the water was the biggest thing,

2.5 litres of water a day is too much if you ask me, unless you are doing some seriously dehydrating activity. 70% of fluid intake is from food anyway, and you only need 6-8 glasses of water on top of that for normal hydration. What is it with all this Volvic water challenge marketing bollocks? Dangerous is what it is - recipe for osteoporosis if you ask me, flushing nutrients right out of your system...

@ DFP
“For the skinny-fat guy with little muscle, it is even more essential to gain a lot of bodyweight as it will increase muscle (strength to weight ratio). The skinny-fat guy will never be very strong at a low bodyweight as they have a poor muscle perecentage. This has little to do with artificially imposed somatype generalisations but more to do with genetics & hormones. At higher weights the gap is closed between these types of traits/people. But still somatypes are pretty useless.”
Genetics and hormones are what determines which one or more of the somatypes you lean towards. We are made up of the three extreme body types so we are all part endomorph, part mesomorph and part ectomorph. Using a score of one to seven, we can grade our bodies on each of the extreme body types
What you called a “skinny fat guy with little muscle” can be described as a bodytype 417 i.e. 4 (medium endomorphy); 1 (Low mesomorphy); 7 (High ectomorphy). We’re both using generalisations of body type but different terms. That’s all somatyping is, a way of comparing body types.
**“There is no such thing as a hard-gainer. The hard gainer just doesnt eat enough” **
As far as hard gainers go I strongly disagree!!!! J May I recommend you read Beyond Brawn by Stuart McRobert? Think that it’s still available to download for free, he has a lot to say on the subject of drug free strength training, hard gainers, abbreviated training plans etc. It’s bloody good.

I swear if TFL turned up at drinks one day, they would quickly bin promoting cycling as a healthy activity!

Banana for brekkie

Granola and yogurt for lunch with an orange/apple or similar

Normal dinner

Cut out bread and beer, and all soft drinks from diet

Cycle 10 miles a day

You will easily loose a stone a month

I think the hardest bit is making yourself eat smaller portions after exercising. I used to find it so easy to cycling home (20 miles) after work and eat twice as much but got there in the end. Keep to this routine and you'll lost weight easily.

.

I think all the advice is good - eat less exercise more etc.

That said for me it was portion size that was the sticking point like spenceey. The more I rode,exercised the more I ate to 'compennsate. Trouble was the calorific intake was sufficently high to ensure no weight was lost.

One thing that did help me was an article (maybe an advertorial) in Cycling Weekly. it looked at eating protein at breakfast in order to 'regulate' appetite. I got some Bikefood Raw Hemp Protein Powder and drank it after my morning ride. The 'results' were quite a surprise. lunch no different but all of a sudden my evening meal seemed like a bit of a struggle. I ended up eating about a 1/3 less, which probably equates to a 'normal person' meal less. I've lost weight 'without any effort' - I'm still cycling and doing circuits but eating less.

This is an interesting thread. The fact that there are so many theories regarding weight loss is more attributable to the complexity and sophistication of our bodies.

Here is my unasked for opinions, :). The only basis I have for this is discussions with a couple of Dieticians, (Not nutrionists), a couple of personal trainers, (not mine), and I train using weights, cycle and do pilates. I weigh more than most and have been 262 pounds, (34% fat, 33% lean), down to 236 pounds (25% fat,35% lean) in the last 6 months. (This measurement isn't exact, but it is derived the same way in both instances).

Dietry needs:

Of all the mix of diets out there, the one thing that IS pretty certain is that people at the higher end of their particular spectrum of sport, whether it is triathlons, powerlifting, cycling, running, they all are very conscious of what/when they eat. They will differ in their philosophies but they will all eat what they need to get the desired results. What will strike you is that most of them will have a BALANCED diet. Yes, the weight lifter will have have egg whites, especially if he is trying to increase his strength, (the protein is more readily used by the body when creating new muscle when tearing muscle fibers as a result of lifting ever heavier weights, for example), but he will still require carbohydrates because in order to tear muscle, he needs to have as much energy as possible to use his existing muscle to the limit.

Triathletes are a great example of all round fitness; you will find they have greater upper body strength than a lot of pure runners. As a result they will usually take a supplement, say whey protein, when training. This is to reduce the rate of reduction in LEAN body mass that will occur in long periods of cardio. So the body will use whatever it has to in order to provide energy. The whey protein helps provides particular nourishment to the body that it would normally get by breaking down muscle when the initial reserves are lost.

But training for specifics aside, if you wish to lose weight, and by weight I am referring to Fat here and not overall weight, then it does come down to calories in vs calories expended. The difference though is that you want to preserve your lean mass as much as possible when reducing calories. Lean mass is hard won. The tricky bit is getting the calories reduced, but still leaving the body with the required parts that still gives you a feeling of energy which encourages you to do things, thus expending yet more energy. This is what varies considerably among people. Some require more carbohydrates than protein, some require less. When you hit on the right combination though, the body then gets used to having the required nutrients at the right times and then doesn't need a fat store and at that point you will notice a loss of fat in a fairly quick period of time.

Homeostasis is when the body has adjusted to a particular method. It is both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on what you are trying to achieve. For example, an athlete may be trying to improve on a weight/time but cannot seem to improve, even though they train hard. Assuming that they are not at the peak of their possible discipline, then what occurs is Homeostasis. This is the way the body adapts to any given scenario and becomes very efficient. If you cycle every day for 100 miles, and do this week in and week out, you will become fit. Your body adapts. If then you decide to drink more beer for weeks at a time, then your body, being very efficient at this cycle now, will find it doesn't need the extra calories and will store them since there is now a considerable excess coming in. So you could carry a few stone of fat and still be more efficient on a 50 mile bike ride than a lot of others and carry it off without breaking a sweat.

My point is that if you do a lot of exercise, and don't think you are taking in a lot of calories, your body can be that efficient that it doesn't need as many to do the exercise as you once did. When weight trainers hit that they will change how they do the exercise. Whether grouping different body parts together, or changing the exercise itself. Sometimes even just a week out of training is enough to get past homeostasis.

The one thing that seems to make a difference when trying to achieve a specific goal regarding health, according to two separate trainers i know, is keeping a food diary. Oh and avoiding pasta and bread. That seems universal too.

Body types:

There are well documented types of body systems. They are a generalisation, (like most classification systems), and you will have extremes in either end of each category. I know a couple of classic ectomorphs who can do whatever they like, but they find it effortless to keep fat off. On is in their teens and sometimes active, one is in his mid forties and drinks ale and does very little exercise. By the same token in fat being very low, they would find it difficult to also put on lean body mass, (muscle), and typically ectomorphs can end up with very good power to weight ratios, they would struggle harder than a typical mesomorph would.

I am not saying here that each person conforms completely the standard definition, however, they will fall into one of the Meso, Endo, Ecto types. In each case variance will and does exist.

Mmmm, I rambled a lot there I think.

Sum up - keep a food diary and record how you feel on a day to day basis, switch it if you have to but keep the diet balanced & vary what exercise you do. If you do longish rides regularly, try mixing shorter faster ones in for a while, or vice versa. But keep the body guessing in that respect.

This thread makes an interesting read. So many ways to lose weight, with so many different experiences...

Basically Jemjah, you have displayed what has been said here already. Eat less = weigh less.

People go to gyms to gain weight. Even those misguided souls who want to "tone" really want to build some firm muscles on their bellies or bottoms. This means weight gain in the form of muscle.

Going to the gym purely to lose weight, is not that effective, as you have found out.

British Military fitness is a fucking rip off. The military has some of the most backwards & innefficient training methods you are likely to find. Why does that attract people? Because you want to be yelled at/feel abused/feel pain? I know a good place in soho for that.

They dont even do that properly, plus they use public parks as venues so they dont even have overheads.

If somebody wants high quality "better than british military fitness" training & coaching from me. Ill do it 1 on 1 for the same price/free and guarantee superior results. This will sell very poorly as I am not an outstanding example of fitness, being born with shoddy genetics and having accumalted several injuries (not through training).

by losing weight, i meant i didn't tone or look better - still podgy.

as for military fitness, yes it's horses for courses. i couldn't keep up that level of exercise on my own for an hour, and it's a damn site cheaper than a personal trainer (which i couldn't afford). there is also a sense of solidarity and i always went with a friend and we always laughed a lot. i would never have got that fit or toned by myself, or just with my friend. anyway, i can't go any more.

...[snip]...You will easily loose a stone a month

What about if you do that already, and have plateaued? I eat small healthy meals (no snacks), cycle 10 miles daily, have started doing a 40 mile ride each weekend, and swim 4x per week. Over the past 10 weeks I've lost 8lbs (mainly as a result of swimming), and would like to lose another 8lbs, but if I consume any less kcals I am going to start fainting...

I've already had 2 breakfasts and a piece of cake today, AND I'm having pasta for lunch.
I don't see what my problem is (tee he he).

Reported for over-use of this week's tedious forum catchphrase. :)

ha!

What about if you do that already, and have plateaued? I eat small healthy meals (no snacks), cycle 10 miles daily, have started doing a 40 mile ride each weekend, and swim 4x per week. Over the past 10 weeks I've lost 8lbs (mainly as a result of swimming), and would like to lose another 8lbs, but if I consume any less kcals I am going to start fainting...

how many meals per day? you need a kick-start, but I don't know what that would be, it's diff for each person. Try adding cayenne to your breakfast, apparently it boosts metabolism and helps curb appetite. Could be a load of bollocks, though. Also, eating the same amount of food in five meals/snacks instead of three is supposed to help.

2.5 litres of water a day is too much if you ask me, unless you are doing some seriously dehydrating activity. 70% of fluid intake is from food anyway, and you only need 6-8 glasses of water on top of that for normal hydration. What is it with all this Volvic water challenge marketing bollocks? Dangerous is what it is - recipe for osteoporosis if you ask me, flushing nutrients right out of your system...

I've been told to take your weight in lbs, cut that in half, and drink that much in oz per day. More if you're sweating.

Jemjah,

by books/DVD's by Ross Enamait. You can get them all for the price of one PT session. It will show you how to "really" train. Light years above what you'd see the average personal trainer/military fitness and in many cases even better than elite athletes training programmes.

And you dont need any expensive special equipment/gym. All based on DIY stuff at home/in the park. Theres a forum on his website too if you need some support.

http://www.rosstraining.com

I've wanted to lose 10-15kg for as long as I can remember. I am a little bit soft where I should be nice and taut. I think I will try to get down to 70kg this Summer. The problem is that I just feel so hungry all the bloody time and it's a total distraction. Losing weight for me by eating less = feeling deprived of food.

Yesterday, with healthy eating in mind, I went out at lunch and bought a salad and a box of Jaffa cakes. My thinking was that they (the latter) are relatively low fat and I really *need *to eat something sweet between 4 and 5pm every day. One or two a day, I thought. However, I doubt there is much 'low fat' about necking the whole lot (as a promptly did). Oops. I have an insatiable sweet tooth.

I'm not that big on fruit like some people, though I do eat a lot of bananas. They never some to satisfy my hunger though. I could do with a few good low calorie snack options, and not trendy, expensive, formulated 'dieting bars'. Just something filling that allows me to concentrate on other things. When I was studying and at home a lot, I got into the routine of making really delicious smoothies and making big bowls of popcorn for snacking on in the evening when I got peckish. A big bowl of popcorn, popped in a tiny amount of oil and with a very slight sprinkling of salt or sugar of a great high bulk/low calorie treat. At work it's not an option though.

I'm also not in a great position to exercise at the moment: commuting by train from out of town and working long hours, with a broken collarbone. I am working on sorting this situation out.

Luckily, I think I must have a pretty fast metabolism or something. Even when I eat like a horse I don't seem to put loads of weight on. I don't fluctuate wildly, I just seem to be consistently very slightly overweight.

@ Konijn
this is quite common, and for a lot of people (and a lot of yourselves maybe) you consider yourselves to be very active, yet cannot seem to get rid of that paunch/love handles.....
A lot of my clients that i have worked with in the past (certainly not my current caseloads - they are morbidly obese) want to look "well toned", "ripped", and "lean".

This is not possible if your body is in a constant state of repair.
All i'm going to say is that recovery is vital. Replenishing the body with correct nutrients (and this is the hard part) for the correct activity means the body will burn fat as fuel during rest. We all presume that we do this don't we? Well sorry, its not always the case.

drinking gallons of iced water is supposedly because of heating the water, but will use about 20 kcal so not really worth it.

Where have you been, Guy? Are you back in London?

Also- a bit of my background. I am highly obsessive about nutrition, and especially the science- the advice I've read here has been hit and miss.

Oh, Henry. You know that you should just eat less. Who needs science? ;P

Dan, you mean like "overtraining" right?

The product of acumalated stress and inadequate recovery. Going on an extreme low calorie-low nutrient diet will barely leave one with the ability to recover from "life".

Hormones like cortisol will increase, to help more fat be stored, even when energy has to be sourced from muscle tissue. Hormones like testosterone will decrease, making one less energetic, weaker, loss of sex drive etc..

It will screw with mood aswell, many people go into a state of clinical depression when being overtrained like this.

I've wanted to lose 10-15kg for as long as I can remember. I am a little bit soft where I should be nice and taut.

Josh, you're an architect now. You need to develop a nicely-rounded figure so that you can wear those black turtleneck sweaters properly and they don't just blow around you in the wind. ;)

I swear if TFL turned up at drinks one day, they would quickly bin promoting cycling as a healthy activity!
Banana for brekkie
Granola and yogurt for lunch with an orange/apple or similar
Normal dinner
Cut out bread and beer, and all soft drinks from diet
Cycle 10 miles a day
You will easily loose a stone a month

A fucking banana for breakfast? Are you a mental?
Of course you'll lose 6kg in a month that's a frickin' starvation plan.