Track racing bike-build

Don't you think that it's just representative of the amount of carbon overall?

Alloy is the predominant material, and as many of the leaders are experienced racers they have been riding longer than others which means they are still riding the bikes they bought 5+ years ago when carbon wasn't as cheap as it is now.

Unless you get custom there are very few steel frames sold new now that anyone would chose over an alu or carbon frame, there's just no point. Look at the cost of a Fuji track pro or planet x carbon track...

In response to RPM, I am riding a friend's 531 Mullet frame, Royce chainset, Campy Record hubs with Mavic rims...so choices for alu frame are Look 464, Koga or Cervelo T1...the latter at £1000 seems a lot for an alu frame? Or hold out for second hand carbon frame?
Wheels - Campy Pista or stick to Elipses? Easton track bars? Cinelli...

Buying a second hand carbon frame is not a good idea according to some people. Not sure why though. Helpful I know :)

So that must make me the the one with the highest points (so far) on carbon

There should be prize at the end of the year for the highest points of each frame material type then?

John McC. 11pts in one evening.

I dare say that there's hardly any difference between Aluminuim frames, buy the one who's stickers/frame design looks the nicest.

In response to RPM, I am riding a friend's 531 Mullet frame, Royce chainset, Campy Record hubs with Mavic rims...so choices for alu frame are Look 464, Koga or Cervelo T1...the latter at £1000 seems a lot for an alu frame? Or hold out for second hand carbon frame?
Wheels - Campy Pista or stick to Elipses? Easton track bars? Cinelli...

People seem to go very well with the Kogas, and the ellipses are more than ample for outdoors. Handlebars should be whatever gives you the most comfortable and correct position. Bar shape similar to your road bars is a good start.

I like my Ellipses a lot, semi-aero and pretty robust. For an outdoor track like HH they are ideal.

Good. My rear ellipse arrived this morning. Now I almost have my bike exactly how I want it.
For the next 2 weeks.... :)

I dare say that there's hardly any difference between Aluminuim frames, buy the one who's stickers/frame design looks the nicest.

really?
many of them seem to have quite different geometry, specially head/seat angles, and head tube length.
I'd add Fuji, Principia, Ridley and Argon 18 to the list of Al frames.

I'm no expert, but If they're all made out the same material and confirm to a track style geometry, I dare say there's not going to be a noticable difference.
I wouldn't of thought slight changes in angles/tube lengths would make too much of a measurable difference - if it did track bikes would look even more similar geometry wise than they look now.

Edit - I'll rephrase that "I wouldn't of thought slight changes in angles/tube lengths as allowed by the UCI would make too much of a measurable difference - if it did track bikes would look even more similar geometry wise than they look now." ;)

If going alu, Look 464 "looks" the part...has anyone seen one in the flesh? Heard any reports re on track use?

I'm no expert, but If they're all made out the same material and confirm to a track style geometry, I dare say there's not going to be a noticable difference.
I wouldn't of thought slight changes in angles/tube lengths would make too much of a measurable difference - if it did track bikes would look even more similar geometry wise than they look now.

Edit - I'll rephrase that "I wouldn't of thought slight changes in angles/tube lengths as allowed by the UCI would make too much of a measurable difference - if it did track bikes would look even more similar geometry wise than they look now." ;)

They might appear similar enough in the middle of the range size, but not so at both end of sizing spectrum. just as an example, most makers just use same fork rake with different head tube angle, and you get trail measurement from 55 to 65. you will notice the difference in handling. same with seat tube angle. if you want to set up small bike with 76 seat angle for endurance event within UCI reg, good luck finding seat post with enough offset.
also if you want to do pursuit, you might want to have a bike with short head tube, which may not be ideal for other events.
another thing that affects handling of the bike is BB drop, and you'd get 65 to 45mm depending on makers.

Dear y-s, how does the 464 in size small come out on your analysis? I have looked at the Look website and that of Velodrome shop which sells them but can't work out whether passes your test so to speak...size small seems to fit me more than medium which I would have thought appropriate based on 54.5cm top tube on road bike...
Cheers

They might appear similar enough in the middle of the range size, but not so at both end of sizing spectrum. just as an example, most makers just use same fork rake with different head tube angle, and you get trail measurement from 55 to 65. you will notice the difference in handling. same with seat tube angle. if you want to set up small bike with 76 seat angle for endurance event within UCI reg, good luck finding seat post with enough offset.
also if you want to do pursuit, you might want to have a bike with short head tube, which may not be ideal for other events.
another thing that affects handling of the bike is BB drop, and you'd get 65 to 45mm depending on makers.

In my experience you don't notice any difference in frame geometry. Over the last 2/3 years I've been riding a 50 year old steel road/path frame, and a modern Bianchi alu/carbon road bike on the track. I notice the differences in the contact points (track drops vs compact bars, saddle more over the bottom bracket etc), rather than the differences in the geometry.

Dear y-s, how does the 464 in size small come out on your analysis? I have looked at the Look website and that of Velodrome shop which sells them but can't work out whether passes your test so to speak...size small seems to fit me more than medium which I would have thought appropriate based on 54.5cm top tube on road bike...
Cheers

Sorry, but I can't tell if it's right bike for you or not without knowing you. It looks like it could be a very nice mass start frame. BB drop probably is 50mm like all their other bikes.

In my experience you don't notice any difference in frame geometry. Over the last 2/3 years I've been riding a 50 year old steel road/path frame, and a modern Bianchi alu/carbon road bike on the track. I notice the differences in the contact points (track drops vs compact bars, saddle more over the bottom bracket etc), rather than the differences in the geometry.

That's a pretty wild claim. are you saying a touring frame or cross frame would ride like a track frame if you get contact points in same place?

Out of interest... why not the Planet X?

Dear y-s, when you say good mass-start frame, will I not be able to use it for pursuits...as wanted to try these as natural extension of time trialing...? Thanks again for your thoughtful input and patience...all appreciated

^ none of these people have a clue what they are talking about.

what you actually want is a cinelli vigorelli mash with twin arrospoks and colour coordinated BLB drivetrain.

Alloy is the predominant material, and as many of the leaders are experienced racers they have been riding longer than others which means they are still riding the bikes they bought 5+ years ago when carbon wasn't as cheap as it is now.

Ahem. Aluminium Fuji Track Pro bought for this season. I bought my bike because it is red and black and looks nice. End of. Oh and a side bonus is that it seems to fit me.

There's no need to go out and spend a bomb on a look or cervelo.

I'd add Fuji, Principia, Ridley and Argon 18 to the list of Al frames.

+1 and probably should include the Dolan Track Champion, a lot of people seem to do pretty well on those.

That's a pretty wild claim. are you saying a touring frame or cross frame would ride like a track frame if you get contact points in same place?

I can only speak from experience, and I haven't ridden either of those. Road my new Vigorelli (@Saindsbury's Ed not Mash, sans spoks ;)), and didn't notice anything that I could attribute to a difference in geometry. The one thing I did notice was the bars supplied with it (Cinelli Vai XL) are far too wide, and far too shallow a drop and will be changed toot suite for some Nitto track drops I've been using for the past few years

Ahem. Aluminium Fuji Track Pro bought for this season. I bought my bike because it is red and black and looks nice.

I said "many of" I don't include you in the experienced bracket. Novice.

He's got 60 points don't you know.

Out of interest... why not the Planet X?

I thought this too.

They work well as an all-rounder don't they? low enough to bang your aero bars on for pursuit and stiff enough for sprinters.

He's got 60 points don't you know.

And what do points make?