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If you're riding single speed why wouldn't you want track ends?

Mudguards.

Your argument is not valid.

Race blades.

So is yours.

Untitled by 40 skid patches, on Flickr

raceblades are crap

Mudguards.

You're argument is not valid.

Your

So you can't fit decent mudguards to bikes with track ends, at all? So what ends do dedicated SS frames use that are compatible with traditional mudguards then?

Right calling bullshit on that: quick search reveals the Pompino with track ends and mudguard eyelets

Pompinos have proper mudguard mounts. It's more the fact that if you get a puncture it's a pain to get the rear wheel out of track ends when you've got mudguards installed.

raceblades are crap

Love mine, they work great.

try using them on a bike you have to lock up every 15 minutes. They're fine for what you can do with a frame with no eyelets and not drilled.

Pompinos have proper mudguard mounts. It's more the fact that if you get a puncture it's a pain to get the rear wheel out of track ends when you've got mudguards installed.

Ok but vertical dropouts means you need the magic gear or an eccentric hub to run SS which seems a complicated way to be able to use mudguards. Most SS CX bikes that run disc brakes have a closed track end. I'm curious what end is ideal for a SS winter bike.

try using them on a bike you have to lock up every 15 minutes. They're fine for what you can do with a frame with no eyelets and not drilled.

Yeah I don't have a bike that I lock up more than once or twice a day really.

I'm curious what end is ideal for a SS winter bike.

I think this comes close to perfect IMO:

You can take the wheel off without fiddling with mudguards and you have a chain tensioner.

OR if you're gonna use discs, then paragon sliders would be best bet.

That is the hermaphrodite of ends

The only time I´ve seen similar dropouts was in some low end spanish BMX bikes.

might as well use an old road frame with standard horizontal dropouts... who needs chain pensioners really?

If you get that, then you should also get JF's point. Conversion = cheap. Eno hub = not cheap. Going eccentric is the the long way round of doing stuff (Buy hub, rim, spokes, build wheel etc) Financially, it makes more sense to buy a bike frame with track ends, as it is the simpler option for someone who wants to ride a single speed bike both financially and mechanically.

Also remember, most people don't know about eno hubs.
This whole argument is kinda pointless because neither is wrong or right.

Why is a conversion supposed to be cheap? That's the crux of the argument, surely? The original issue was that the hub was expensive, so why bother when anything but a frame with track ends is a compromise. My argument is that it's a very good hub full stop, a very good hub that also happens to solve the chain tension problem. So the cost is valid. There are, as Ed proved, other, cheaper solutions as well. (Forgetting my other original point that high end track hubs are not far off the same price for anyone that's going for a custom build).

My point is not that Jimmy is totally wrong - track frames are great. I have ridden plenty - my point is that a FG/SS bike (or any bike) should be right for the rider. Making it right, through whatever means, rather than that blindy saying anything but a frame with track dropouts is a shitty idea to run a single speed is just bollocks.

Cool story

No-one's saying it's shitty, just there are more elegant and easier options. Anyway I thought we were past that.

Don't make me pull my gif out again...

I don't think anyone said or insinuated that anything but a track frame is shit. Nor do I think there is a more important aspect to the argument than another. It's all swings and roundabouts.
Conversions (which no one is saying are shit, best steel frame I've ridden was a conversion) are generally utilised as an entry level platform into the SS/fixed world, as many threads here indicate, hence "cheaper". Cheaper doesn't mean shitter, that's a correlation you made, it just means there are many older road frames lying around at low cost. Getting an Eno hub, while ingenious in design, is the expensive options out of half link chain or magic gearing right? It's like cutting a tomato with a Katana.

You can't compare an expensive track hub to an eno hub. They're targeted at different markets.
This whole shebang comes down to cost at the end of the day, and in this forum, that means fuck all! So I don't agree with anything you say, I'm gonna go ride my trispoked NJS Lo-pro for a pint of milk.

p.s I agree with you, let's stfu and talk rats. Where's bmxd when you need him.

The only time I´ve seen similar dropouts was in some low end spanish BMX bikes.

double spoks and risers! SO HHSB.

Is it bad form to post your own bike? Bought off here a while ago now, changed a few bits, hope the image isn't massive also shitty phone pic...

imho, no, but all i see is a little grey box :(

I'm fucking useless at this... Edit: Think its sorted ha

its worked! that is a beaut! although i cannot get along with that brake lever!

Your

Post edited for grammar.

So you can't fit decent mudguards to bikes with track ends, at all? So what ends do dedicated SS frames use that are compatible with traditional mudguards then?

You can, but it's far from ideal.

Don't you think there's a reason singlespeed and hub gear OTP commuter bikes with track ends are few and far between.

Race blades.

So is yours.

raceblades are crap

^This.

Right calling bullshit on that: quick search reveals the Pompino with track ends and mudguard eyelets

It's more the fact that if you get a puncture it's a pain to get the rear wheel out of track ends when you've got mudguards installed.

I own a pomp which wears full mudguards but if I want to remove the rear wheel I have to undo the mudguard mount down at the track end. It's a massive PITA but the low cost of the pomp along with it being right in every other way make it a worthwhile compromise.