• What are you trying to achieve? You're ok, the bike's ok, the driver apologised. If you don't have any witnesses it is your word against her's. What do you expect the police to do? And, really, why waste their time and your time with it? I can't see what you have to gain?

  • Simply to put it in record perhaps? for statistical purpose?

  • Nah waste of time. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th person they hit won't have a problem as no driver would plea "oh noes, this has never happened before it's an accident".

  • But @WillMelling wants to know what they want to achieve. Perhaps he is suggesting not to report the driver but to look up their details and then deposit a fecal ornament on the drivers bonnet.

  • I asked a question and was hoping for answers, if you don't have it, thanks for reading my post, but I do not need criticism or questioning. And no she was not sorry or she would not have driven off.

  • What I'd like to know is what @willmelling hopes to achieve by asking extra what they want to achieve.

  • Then R0adSafe should sufficient no?

  • Morning.

    I believe s172 RTA 1988 applies.
    Though I'm sure the legal eagles will correct me if I'm wrong, but:

    If there is no injury or damage then the driver is not obliged to give details.
    Incidentally, this section refers to a mechanically propelled vehicle, so it would seem that cyclists have no obligation to give details at all.

    Or am I reading it wrong?

  • The point is she didn't know if my back wheel was damaged or not. Mechanically, even if my wheel was knocked out of true, that's damage in my book, especially my wheels are brand new.

    I would have accepted her not sincere nor heart felt apologies if she has given me her details and did not insist me and my bike were OK. What qualified her to make such assessment? I was angry bit had no intention to report her if she has bothered to give me her details.

    Unless the laws have changed, I once reported a similar incident and the driver then was prosecuted, he had 6 points off his licence and £450 fine for failing to stop and exchange details.

    I have also included in much report that I do not believe this drive yesterday hit my bike accidentally because it was almost stationary traffic.

  • An adjustment, as in straightening a wheel, is not damage. It is an adjustment this has been held on many occasions in relation to criminal damage, however, the principle applies.
    Ok, you don't know if there was any damage, fair point, but whether she should have given you her details is for a court to decide in these circumstances. We are getting into the realms of reasonably help belief.
    "I honestly believed there was no damage", would a court accept that?
    I don't know.
    I suspect that the previous case you allude to was significantly more serious as I really cannot see the CPS going ahead in the circumstances you describe.
    As for your allegation that the contact was deliberate.
    Very difficult to prove, but if it were the case then you are into assault rather than RTC.

  • It should still get reported, even if it's just so she gets a talking to. There was a collision, damage or not sure drove off against the wishes of the other party and it doesn't sound like she was a mechanic who got out and inspected the bike before fucking off.

  • I agree that good manners dictate the woman should have given her details, but unless there is damage she is not obliged by law to do so irrespective of the wishes of the other party. Indeed had ExTra attempted to detain her in these circumstance then ExTra would be open to some very serious allegations.
    As cyclist we are all aware that many car drivers (and cyclists) leave much to be desired in the manners department; that's just a fact of life.
    As for reporting her, again, I agree, but without any damage or independent witnesses I doubt it would go even that far.
    The minor tail end has happened to me on a couple of occasions. Once it was a wizened old lady once a yoot in a bangin' hatchback. The first time I took it with stoic good humour the second time I judged to be deliberate and so went ballistic and ended up being warned for public order when said yoot locked himself in his car and dialed 999.
    Life.

  • How did she know there was no damage though? Her 2 tonne car hit their 10kg bike, even slowly there is a fair chance something could break, details should be exchanged so the bike could be checked over and to decide if there is damage.

  • I accept the point about not knowing whether damage is caused. However, the act does not state "suspect damage caused". So, again, we are back to whether a court would think her actions were reasonable given the circumstances. Which is tantamount to saying that it would never get to court as there was no obvious damage for her to see at the time, so she has no obligation to stop.
    There are numerous stated cases on this and the majority seem to revolve around reason ability.

  • If someone is not sure if the wheel is ok, then it best to take detail in case the bike shop found something (cracked flange that's not noticeable).

  • It's fine to leave and not report it if both parties agree, but if one suspects their is a possibility of damage, even if it's not obvious and needs an expert to check, then details should be exchanged.

  • More importantly what does @WillMelling think about this?

  • Point accepted about possible damage coming to light later, but the only legal obligation for a driver to give details comes from S172 which states "damage", not suspicion of damage. As previously stated this fine distinction has been argued over at crown court on many occasions. The courts seem to think that unless the damage would be obvious to an ordinary driver then it is reasonable for that driver to assume no damage.
    Crap decision I know, but that's how it appears. Good manners are not a legal obligation.
    As for being forced to give details: the 1988 act States that a driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle must give details. Cycles are not mechanically propelled vehicles. Now I know it's difficult to argue with the 5-O but that's what it says in the act.
    Depends how far you want to stick to a point.

  • Just seen someone in a bmw with a flat rear tyre coming off the rim crazyness, drive from like tottenham all across stamford hill along the A10 till that bit it goes one way so turns left.

  • Well the previous RTC I mentioned where the driver failed to give me his details and later got 6 points off his license was not as forceful a bump as this time. I asked the staff at the station if it's worth reporting and there were honest to say I should even if there is no damage but they are not sure if the road traffic unit or whatever they are called will be bothered to investigate as there are too many.

    On the flip side, the time where I was injured and filed a report, I heard nothing back and I didn't expect so, only needed it for insurance purpose as the driver that time was really apologetic, got out of his car and gave me his details. I think the driver's immediate reaction plays a big part.

  • some of the comments on that article are rather good.

  • I was once killed twice by a cyclist on fire going the wrong way up a one-way street both ways dressed as a nazi and punching kittens. The police do nothing.

    Wins the comments section.

  • Link from that article, Quick karma which some may have seen. Any views? The very first thing that occurred to me is that whilst I like to think I would have been less rash in overtaking without looking behind me, you could argue the case that the cyclist was overtaking at a pinch point, and the motorist would have absolutely no justification for being so close, let alone aggressively using his horn. Was he planning to overtake both cyclists level with the traffic island??

  • I was sat in my stretch limo with Mother Teresa and Ian Lavendar when a cyclist literally fell out of the sky through the sun roof and made Mother Teresa pregnant, when I accosted him about the scuff marks on my seal-skin interior he laughed in an unpleasant way and said "Where we're going we don't need stinking road tax" then he punched me in the mouth and set fire to my mother. I am a cyclist myself.

    I think this is a strong contender.

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Please report dangerous drivers to the police - Roadsafe. Report to plod, not just whinge here.

Posted by Avatar for dancing james @dancing james

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