Mash / Cinelli Vigorelli

but then it's a strange comparison, as their geometry is quite the opposite.

It's fair to say there are a few factors other than just weight that matter to people when they choose a frame.

Geometry
Handling
Stiffness
Finish
etc.

and Heritage, Image and LOOKs too.

^^ A clear and well reasoned response.

;)

TBH I thought the two actual things that got two people were; 1) the unnecessary sloping top tube and 2) that the Vigorelli is ostensibly the same frame for less money (?).

you forgot the scruffy welds....

and the hipster association.

but then it's a strange comparison, as their geometry is quite the opposite.

I realise the geo is very different but the majority of the hates is the better quality for the price..

It's fair to say there are a few factors other than just weight that matter to people when they choose a frame.

Geometry
Handling
Stiffness
Finish
etc.

and Heritage, Image and LOOKs too.

so yes we know geo is totally different. and this goes in hand with the handling. if you like a twitchy ride...

stifness fair enough, finish fair enough..

questioning Cinelli's heritage?

listen i'm not trying to defend the mash, just thinking that maybe, just maybe all the hate is not warranted. that is all.

TBH I thought the two actual things that got two people were; 1) the unnecessary sloping top tube and 2) that the Vigorelli is ostensibly the same frame for less money (?).

does that mean any lo pro with 700c front and rear have that have sloping top tubes are just that, unecessary?

and the hipster association.

so it basically comes down to this! and the fact the look is 1000x cooler!

does that mean any lo pro with 700c front and rear have that have sloping top tubes are just that, unecessary?

The sloping TT on my Fort is entirely necessary..... and way steeper than a mashs.

so it basically comes down to this! and the fact the look is 1000x cooler!

I really don't understand why you're even considering a mash, if I was gonna blow my load on a fixter faux pro I'd get a Lowe or a Pellizoli...

I really don't understand why you're even considering a mash, if I was gonna blow my load on a fixter faux pro I'd get a Lowe or a Pellizoli...

Do you mean Low? basically excactly the same! handmade in SF ok with shorter wheelbase and big toe overlaap. they look much nicer but are they not fundamentally the same?

yes indeed the pellizoli's are amazing but a touch more expensive i thought.

I'm not considering getting a mash... infact i'm selling a brand new unused histogram as i dont want it but what i'm saying is i think that the majority of the hate is just out of princicple. you see a load of fucking knobs building them like fucking crap and riding around for the look (cos they heard about mash) and not for the ride. whether you like/want the feel of that ride basically they have no idea what they are on.

for example... if the mash guys had all been riding the Look 464 and that frame exploded as being the hipsters choice, would it not get hated on just as much?

OK maybe not just as much! but you get me or is it pointless?

i think it has been said countless of times yet still people hate them because it is cool to hate them. just make a contract with it

ok. i'm done. THanks negaatio. I do want that Look now tho!

if you have to ask the question, you probably don't deserve it.

This.

good argument ;)

ur mum

Sorry. My argument is now..

having ridden both a mash and a vigorelli, id have to say i like both of them equally, for the simple reason that they handle nicely.

however, i wouldn't buy either, because i love steel :)

I like steel, but I just realised most of the frames I own now are closer to ally, Columbus air, Foco, 853.. Shit. Need some 531c or summat ;)

get yerself a gaspipe raleigh, should even out the balance.

I need some nice steel in my life..

get yerself a gaspipe raleigh, should even out the balance.

Might tip it too far, then I'd have to get a boardman ;)

Sounds like a plan

for example... if the mash guys had all been riding the Look 464 and that frame exploded as being the hipsters choice, would it not get hated on just as much?

The problem is, it's a frame designed for and branded by the group Mash. Therefore you're buying in to their whole image and ethos surrounding Mash. There's a lot of hate for the frame because it seems the majority of people buy it to try and emulate their idols, build them up without a thought past what colour the parts are and it invariably looks shit/will ride like shit and is ridden by someone who pictures them self doing massive skids down hills in black and white to a hip hop sound track.
I've got respect for the Mash boys, they organise loads of rides, do some big rides on their track bikes and get getting paid for it.
Also I like Chas' Mash bike in a ratty sort of way. You can tell it's been ridden everywhere.