Which Groupset?

The answer to that is not to buy PT cranks, they're cheap and nasty shit designed by accountants in the OEM sales department.

Middleburn had the stand next to us at Bespoked, their new external, 24mm BB's looked quite effectively sealed and were very nicely made.

Their rings were very nicely made also.

Fnar.

They have some awesome crankset, we have a rep in at work and he show us a lovely external bb crankset with 46/30 ring and a low Q factor, made the white industries one look cheap.

I've got an Ultegra 6700 setup and need a new RD. Can I use a 6800, as I've found one cheap?

Ignore, I've found it's not

I expected 10 speed would offer the best value: it's tried & tested and there's established, aftermarket competition to keep prices keen.

I think they need to flog lots of 11 speed to increase take up.

Ultegra 6800 or Chorus 11s for the Sunday Best LOOK 586 SL?

Which hood do you find more comfortable? Go for the one that felt the best.

Ultegra 6800 or Chorus 11s for the Sunday Best LOOK 586 SL?

Force22

See I've already got TRP R960s and a fine enough chainset... I can get all the bits to make my drive-train 11s Chorus for £400. That's basically what I'm gonna do actually... not entirely sure why I asked.

Perhaps to prolonged yet another discussion to why you should choose this over that with bullet point?

http://m.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job?page=1%2C0

^ It is sad but that's how all the historical "cycling related" italian brands ended in the last decade.
For sure Campagnolo has some strong history to survive on but I guess its end won't be far if they keep it like that...

That's an odd reading of the article, did you read all of it? It doesn't go into whether the accounts are robust (and probably can't, given that Campag is a private company), but assuming they are, the thrust of the article seemed to be that the trend was coming back towards Campag's way of doing business. They can never be as big as Shimano doing it that way, but that doesn't mean they can't stay in business for a long time at roughly their current scale. Roberts Cycles can never be as big as Giant, but as long as they keep making a profit, why should they want to be?

^ It is sad but that's how all the historical "cycling related" italian brands ended in the last decade.
For sure Campagnolo has some strong history to survive on but I guess its end won't be far if they keep it like that...

Business analyst???

Imagine the price for campy parts if they went bust mohahaha id be rich.. :-)

I doubt its going to happen in the near future. Ppl have predicted the downfall or even death of campy, custom bikes, steel bikes, titanium bikes etc for a long time..

Most Campagnolo stuff is made in Romania I thought.

If you don't live in Veneto you can't understand what makes Campagnolo a classic italian (north east) company.

Most Campagnolo stuff is made in Romania I thought.

There is a Campagnolo factory in Romania. That's not outsourcing. The traditional Italian way is to work in geographically close industrial clusters of specialists.

If you don't live in Veneto you can't understand what makes Campagnolo a classic italian (north east) company.

So it's not something you can break down for a bunch of foreigners?

I would imagine that a worst case for Campag is that they stop trying to compete at the cutting edge of technology and continue to make great quality, great looking parts for people who are prepared to pay a premium for the best. There is plenty of room for european companies that produce great products and great looking products with cache.

And they may well be able to continue competing at the cutting edge too.

Also, more generally, the days of shifting manufacturing overseas seem to be coming to an end as wages stagnate in the west and rise rapidly in the east. I think that - to a large extent - companies that have survived without outsourcing manufacturing already will be fine now, maybe even do better than those who are facing the prospect of bringing manufacturing back in house / back to europe.

I think they stopped trying to compete on technology a while ago Jeez.

The biggest change they've made in recent years is the front mech on the RS group- and that's probably because someone at Campag HQ had a go on a modern Shimano groupset, then "borrowed" the thinking.

Eps?

Was a direct response to Di2, was it not?

The last time they innovated was the move to 11 speed.

Although the move to Power Torque is inspired trolling.

Eps?

Was a direct response to Di2, was it not?

I thought EPS had been around longer than Di2, but had not been in any way finished, until the sudden arrival of Di2 forced their hand.

Will see if I can find anything to back this up

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/11/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/lennard-zinn-the-20-year-history-of-campagnolo-electronic-power-shift-eps_198080

EPS came first, I thought.