Running

Your pace for the same HR is going to increase simply from the conditioning at that HR even if you lost zero kg - this is the principle behind the Maffetone Method.

To get a better idea, plug your current numbers into http://fellrnr.com/wiki/VDOT_Calculator and include your weight - it will give you predicted times if you lost Xkg. Enjoy your eating disorder!

It's obvious that as the weight comes off my HR should be lower for the same workout

Not really. The correlation between your heart rate and your performance is fairly weak.

Weak maybe, but I meant as a general trend without going to extremes. If I go from BMI 30 to BMI 25 then I'll be faster for the same effort as I'm carrying much less weight (18kg). Therefore I can put in less effort and go the same speed as before, hence lower HR.

I'm not looking for a detailed correlation between HR and weight, or trying to predict anything. I'm looking for examples from people from before/after significant weight loss. Maybe I'm just hoping for evidence that it gets easier (or you get faster for the same effort).

@Pifko Very interesting but the data begins when he's already in good shape (11st10 and a 2:19 Marathon). Though, as a data nerd, I'm liking the bpm measurement (beats per mile) to keep an eye of aerobic fitness. (Adds column to spreadsheet. Ouch. ~1500 beats per mile compared to his 720bpm.)

( This book by Michael Bane: http://www.amazon.com/Over-Edge-Regular-Odyssey-Extreme/dp/0575400854 has been part of the inspiration for me. I went from wistfully remembering doing lots of cycling when ~15 to getting off my arse and doing lots.)

The only book you need to read about a bigger person running to lose weight is this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Terrible-Wonderful-Reasons-Long-Distances/dp/1449459951

Your pace for the same HR is going to increase simply from the conditioning at that HR even if you lost zero kg - this is the principle behind the Maffetone Method.

True, but that improvement will be finite and trend towards some final value. Whilst overweight I'm going to see much better gains from losing weight.

To get a better idea, plug your current numbers into fellrnr.com/wiki/VDOT_Calculator and include your weight - it will give you predicted times if you lost Xkg. Enjoy your eating disorder!

Thanks, that's very useful and the figures make sense to me, and it's probably more useful than individual anecdotes. Given my current 5k times if I get to my target weight it suggests a sub 4h marathon so I'm happy with that (as a sugestion purely based on a 5k time and a weight!)

Ha, didn't realise he'd done a book (of the cartoons). Ordered. Ta.

It's Murukami for people with short attentions spans

I gave up at Muruk...

Right, off to Up & Running to get some advice and new shoes.

I've had a badly upset stomach after my last two runs (13km on Sunday; 8x800m intervals on Tuesday). I haven't experienced it before and I don't think I have changed anything in pre-run eating patterns. I may be eating too much bread. It's annoying.

Welcome to my world. I'm yet to identify what food is disagreeing with me (other than really obvious things like 2 litres of fizzy water, yes I'm an idiot) - the only way I can reliably avoid an upset stomach is to run without eating anything at all before hand.

Another 6k run done (slowly feeling less and less onerous) this time through Roehampton, Richmond Park and then back up to Upper Richmond Road and into Up & Running.

A quick go on the treadmill to see how bad my gait is (midfood strike, mostly Neutral but with a slightly wonky right foot) and I'm away with a pair of Saucony Jazz 17 and also a pair of Saucony Peregrine 4 trail shoes for when the heath/common is particularly wet and boggy.

@greenbank http://www.runningforfitness.org/faq/we. It has a calculator, it kinda suggests around 2-3 per km per kg lost. seems high.

I used to run a 19:25 5k at a not so svelte 83kg. That says that if I lost 4kg at the time i'd be sub 19. I decided to test it the other way anyway. I can now say that getting fatter does slow you down.

Right, its that time of year when I start obsessing about reflective jackets again.

Nike has fresh stock of the Shield Flash, but I'm too mean to pay £240 for it.

Sadly, however, I'm not finding any for less than that (which are not XXL).

Can anyone with cunning search skills turn anything up?

@greenbank runningforfitness.org/faq/we. It has a calculator, it kinda suggests around 2-3 per km per kg lost. seems high.

Thanks, that site seems to be a very simplistic version of the VDOT stuff that @lamby posted above.

@Greenbank afraid i dont have data, but i have some anecdotal evidence im a little bit shorter than you so bear that in mind when talking about weight.

Its hard to separate the effect of weight loss and training as in my case they are inextricably linked, as is muscle to fat ratio, but i used to be about 80-85kg (that was after losing some weight too!) and i'm now 70-75kg, i've gone from running 6min kms, to running from 4-5min kms depending on the distance, and i can promise you not carrying the extra weight makes things a lot easier!

Having said that smallfurry is a heavy little nugget, but is mostly muscle, and he's not too slow!

there is a lot of numbers on that fellrnr page.

does anyone have time to actually look at that, work out appropriate runs and then complete them all?

much easier just to run some runs fast, some long ones slow and do a track session once a week. and eat sensibly, not the 3 snickers I had after pasta for lunch yesterday.

Ran a new 5k PB yesterday at track.

Got there at 7 and the place was heaving, despite being an open session some 'gb' coaches were running their runners through drills using lanes 2-5 and then on both straights were a kids running club and a youth team doing sprints, the net effect being all warmups, cooldowns, recoveries and fast laps pretty much had to be done in lane 1. which was also being used by 3 different groups.

net result was one lap into my workout which involved running at 10k goal pace for mile repeats (i.e. slower than most 400/800 paces people were running at) I either had people shouting track for me to gtfo of the way or had to dodge people walking along the first track. my resolve broke straight away and I said fuck this and went and sulked in the middle until most of the groups fucked off.

given the time by that point my planned 6 mile workout was out the window so swapped it for the 5k 'see how you're doing' time trial I had penned in for next week as it was a much quicker work out.

by that time I was free to pretty much stick in lane 2 and ran pretty consistently for 12.5 laps with one of my fast mates egging me round for the final 1.5.

wasn't an easy run but I recovered almost immediately (the gods saw fit to reward my efforts with a light mist of rain that started the second i completed my 5k and finished as soon as i'd done my cooldown, perfect)

previous 5k best was 22:29, new 5k best 21:34

I think under race conditions I could probably go sub 21 now with a bit of adrenaline and a big crowd. think I might have to find a decent parkrun in 2 weeks and see how I do.

All in all though, not bad for a 96kg lad.

^Nice!

That's a really good time. I think mine is in the low 21mins, but I'm almost 30kg lighter...
Determined to go sub 20 in 2014.

good effort.

Dulwich Park parkrun might be the one you are after. flat 3 laps. plenty of people around to chase/pace.

Track 5000 is probably slightly faster though as conditions are more controlled.

They've put a massive sleeping policeman into Dulwich Park now, which (when I last went through there a few days ago) also included a bottle neck.

That aside- good effort HB, I'll try to up my game tomorrow morning.

did a race. was all army excpet me and a mate
wrote about it and ting
http://jasonmfalconer.co.uk/

Track 5000 is probably slightly faster though as conditions are more controlled.

I agree it's more controlled but I also find I'm afraid of going above my target pace on the track as if i start to fade the only thing to keep me from stopping at any point is my strength of will. in a race until you hit the finish line you're not done and it's pointless stopping anywhere else. plus while i'm not particularly competitive having people to chase/chasing me does help push me to keep going.

that and the whole 12 lap thing just makes it seem insurmountable, ticking off miles or km instead just makes it less daunting.

If you try it you'll probably find it to be not so bad?

Ace, so you beat the Army folks?

only 36 mate, theres a shitload more of them around

Are you sure? MoD cuts have been pretty heavy because austerity.

;)