Running

Running is boring, too slow.

I wouldn't totally dismiss the idea of arch support, metatarsal compression & heel all so quickly. I mean, I realise that running is a natural function of our bodies so we are all capable of doing it unequipped given enough practice/adaptation.

But coming from my interest in industrial design & physiology/kinesiology it is easy to see that in many cases these type of supportive technologies can make things more efficient & safer on the body.

I dont know that much about running yet but a good analogy would be the use of knee supports in weightlifting. The knee is perfectly built for mobility and withstanding forces/impacts in natural planes of motion. (no twisting) Yet the use of supportive knee sleeves is a good piece of equipment to be used always/indefinitely. It keeps the joint warm (ligaments more supple) and creates a larger artificial capsule around the knee reinforcing stability through compression. Both of these make training with weights safer, and reduce unnecessary chronic overuse damage to the knee.

I don't see this as a good comparison. The human knee and associated tendons/ligaments are perfectly suited to supporting typical bodyweight, and DO NOT require supportive knee sleeves. The human knee however is not suited to supporting 3, 4 or even 5 times bodyweight. You're putting the knee under very extreme duress there. It's like saying you can break someone's elbow by applying massive forces to it therefore under normal use it should be supported.

Obsession in being totally natural would suggest that we should all run barefoot. Even ignoring support/cushioning, it is clear to see that a deep tread will grip better than our feet in mud

Really? Why do you think we've evolved toes?

and soft rubber will grip better on concrete. Giving them a clear benefit to making running more efficient, enjoyable & safer.

I can't see how running on concrete with more grip than that offered running barefoot would, in any way whatsoever, make running more efficient.

In fact it might be possible (and I know this might seem a bit far-fetched) that adding 0.7kg of weight to your feet may actually slow one down a touch!

We did not all expect to live over 80 and avoid arthritis too, during our greater evolutionary history. We expect a lot from our bodies now, often without willing to put in the many years of slow progression and adaption to do something as "simple" as running, perhaps we do need technological assistance.

We're a lot less active than we used to be, we expect a lot less from our bodies than we did. Adaption is required, you cannot just go out and run a marathon barefoot, apart from blisters you will find that your running gait changes as you become a more efficient runner. Muscles will (unfortunately) take time to adapt to these gait changes.

The problem is, we rely on technology over what nature gave us. Folks can learn to run properly or they can use orthotics (i.e. technical trainers), it's a simple choice. But bear in mind that that technical trainers will come with a long term cost, that being injury, often through fucked up knees.

how shit are nike running shoes?

need a pair of shoes and went to a running shop and they told me i slightly overpornate, which is funny as i thought this was a movement with the wrist and the similar movement in your ankle was inversion/eversion. - i have feelings which echo those mentioned above that the foot should be left to do its thing without lots of structure, although i know sod all about running having only done a half marathon and pre requisite training.

anyway i'm colour coordinating twat and want to get some nike ids but a colleague said that their running shoes are bollocks quality and die after 3 months, is that true?

currently training for a marathon, so i need something that will survive training over the summer and will last untill at least the after the run which is late spetember.

well I've put a fair few miles into mine and nothing has disintegrated.
I do need new shoes though, mine are now bent out of shape.
Funny- I too am training for a Marathon-
next year. sometime, because I feel I must.

Buy Asics- best for overpronation.

you should be able to answer me future doctor.

it is technically inversion/eversion isnt it?

overpronation is marketing bullshit.

you should be able to answer me future doctor.

it is technically inversion/eversion isnt it?

overpronation is marketing bullshit.

aye.
Over pronation- literally means your foot moves to far, very aspecific.
My 2p- get yourself looked at by someone who knows what they're doing- just as you would with expensive bike stuff, but this is much more important in running as you can really fuck yourself up, like my knee is, yay!

The Asics shop will put you on a treadmill and tell you what you're doing wrong and what type of trainer you need to stop you fucking yourself up more. It'll cost you a fiver, but they'll take that off any pair of shoes you buy.

how shit are nike running shoes?

My day-glow nike free's are going pretty well. Had them for a year, don't run really regularly, but they are looking as good as new (but quite muddy!)

Also, I wear through the soles of my shoes really quickly, but these seem to last well :)

aye.
Over pronation- literally means your foot moves to far, very aspecific.
My 2p- get yourself looked at by someone who knows what they're doing- just as you would with expensive bike stuff, but this is much more important in running as you can really fuck yourself up, like my knee is, yay!

Why's your knee fucked then?

youthful excess and now having put on too much weight.
I destroyed it as a kid (6yrs ago) in cheap ass shoes, and probably rugby, and definitely snowboarding.
Had tonnes of physio, thought all was good.
Went back to running at the beginning of April having put on weight post Uni, and overexerted myself, thought it was just strain, time off, rebuild up to steady rate, then hurling plus road running (I prefer the towpath in Putney/ barnes/ the commons) have screwed it up again.
Plus wrong shoes- my fault.

Ed, if i may offer my advice - even if you "slightly" overpronate (as you mentioned previously) i would still run on a neutral shoe. Why? Well, theres a chance that if you purchase a structured running shoe, with the purpose to neutralise overpronation, your foot - which only "slightly" pronates - may not like the position in which you run in? Does that make sense? You may find it causes a few niggles in the ankle, and maybe in the knees....
We all have our own preferences to running shoes - i'm a fan of the Mizuno Wave Rider, but you'll get good advice from an independent running store. Good luck my friend.

Go to Runner's Need, they will do the treadmill thing and tell you what you need, and they have loads of brands to compare.

I tend to vary brands between Asics and New Balance. I usually wear neutral, but when I step the distance up and run with weight on my back I use stability shoes.

Get decent socks as well, really worth the extra. Wrightsocks are good basic ones, but toetoes are amazing (they really do work, but they take ages to get on!)

Go to Runner's Need, they will do the treadmill thing and tell you what you need, and they have loads of brands to compare.

I tend to vary brands between Asics and New Balance. I usually wear neutral, but when I step the distance up and run with weight on my back I use stability shoes.

Get decent socks as well, really worth the extra. Wrightsocks are good basic ones, but toetoes are amazing (they really do work, but they take ages to get on!)

agree totally.

Ok so decent socks are already done, but I went to runners need and did the whole treadmill and all three pairs they put me in my 'over pronation' looked the same so I said I'd leave it and have a think as I don't want to spend £90 on the wrong pair of shoes.

Dale are you saying it's worth having supportive full stop for longer distances?

i have orthotics to support my arches, plus wear motion control asics shoes, two pairs at a time. bin when they become bendy.

you don't have to spend big ie kayanos, when other support shoes ie evolution are available. i know a few managers of runners need so i am biased.

I went for the Nike Free 3.0. I dont run more than 4.5 miles at a time.

I cant believe how much difference theyve made. I previously used some Asics Gel something or others which cost a bloody poultice and experienced general soreness after every run. Seemed that the arch support to address my pronation issues was pushing me around.

These things feel ace and are stupid light.

Look naff though.

Which runners need would you reccomend Dale?

have been looking at that type of shoe, but i guess as i'll be clocking up 20-30 miles per week for the next few months its worth certainly having more cushioning.

http://www.vibramfivefingers.it/eng/default.aspx
Alternative to running barefoot.

There was a bloke wearing these standing behind me as we lined up at the start of the London Marathon. He was getting quite a lot of attention for his 'gorilla feet' but he said he'd run a couple of marathons in them. They take some getting used to, he said, because they force you to run on the balls of your feet, as opposed to slamming down the heel.

anyone else on here running the everyman run for testicular cancer in victoria park on the 6th june?

ok so i now have new shoes.

After an hour in a sweat shop (i wonder what they pay their staff) I have some adiddas salvations which are for heavy overpronators, advantage being that they offer a 1 month no quibble guarantee. and they corrected my gait best.

I didn't break them in and have run 40k since sunday and my feet arent happy at all but i'm going to give them another week or so before i consider taking them back.

my question now is all about hydration, i need a bag that i can carry trousers, a shirt a set of underwear to work, and can hold enough water for a 3 hour commuting run home.

I'm thinking a camelback mule but wondered on other peoples thoughts.

I'd say camelbaks are a bit gimmicky.
When are you ever going to need to drink 3 litres of water before you find somewhere to refill? The only time I've ever drunk one dry was doing a 12 miler carrying 65lbs.
I've got several (issued) and they all leak, not much, but enough to be annoying if you want to arrive somewhere with some dry clothes.
They are also very hard to keep clean. A big bag of warm water is ace for breeding germs, and the mouthpiece always ends up getting dragged along the floor eventually.
You're better off getting a couple of 500ml-ish sized bottles and having them on the straps of your running sack. I use Raidlight ones, but some people dont like them. Camelbak Podium bottles are supposed to be very good.
www.likeys.com might give you some ideas.

erm, just adding this to my subscriptions. I'm a runner too. When I can be arsed. Not trained much since last August. Nearly cracked sub 3 marathon last year, will be having another crack once I've rested fully, moved, and got my mojo back. Better over 10km though.

erm, just adding this to my subscriptions. I'm a runner too. When I can be arsed. Not trained much since last August. Nearly cracked sub 3 marathon last year, will be having another crack once I've rested fully, moved, and got my mojo back. Better over 10km though.

Sub 3? Nutter!

get to work once a week by other means and leave all your work stuff there and just run light. that way you dont need a big mushy bag on your back. just a smaller one or bottles on your belt like matey boy said.