Running

Replaced my running shoes at the weekend, only to get a telling off as apparently modern running shoes are only effective for 500miles..... apparently.......?!

I want to run to work more but I work outside London so have a 1Okm run to the station followed by a 4O minute train journey during which I get freezing cold. Does anyone have any advice on what layer I can take that's light but will keep me warm on the train? I have lots of lightweight breathable things meant for use while you're actually doing the running/cycling/whatever but I'm not sure if that kind of thing is going to be any use.

pretty much anything that you didnt use to run in. take another top (yes merino would be ace) in a backpack or round your waist and when you get to the station go to the loos and change your top for your dry non sweaty one and you will stay warmer for longer than if you just stay in your damp clothes. get the wet one off as soon as poss. makes all the diference to how warm you stay.

where did you get yours from? i know there is a store in london somewhere as i visited it, but maybe you got yours elsewhere? im waiting on some ebay fuckhead to deliver mine and i want a back up plan for when i demand a refund for non delivered goods..

Got 'em from http://www.baselayer.co.uk this was mid 2009 tho and they were the only place that had them in stock. Bought three pairs and sent back the ones that didn't fit.

cheers mate i'll check it out. been running barefoot but now the sun ids out its drying out the football pitches and making them spikey and its making people spend more time outside and leaving all their sharp litter all over the place (cunts) so a little bit of protection will be ace.

Originally Posted by Prime heretic
Fuck me, I hate shoe companies, they're a right bunch of cunts. =(

...

The sad truth is the more technical the shoe the more likely you are to become injured.......

+1,000,000

I spent the 5months preceding Ironman UK last year unable to run at all because of a succession of injuries resulting from a "heel strike" running gait ultimately down to excessive padding in the heel of "technical" running shoes. Over the course of the winter and early this season I have worked on transitioning to a "mid-foot strike" running gait and am running further, faster and with fewer injuries than ever.

I love my vibrams and they have played an important part in helping retrain my body to mid-foot strike. For long road runs however I still opt for conventional running shoes, but I make sure I concentrate on not heel striking.

This website has a load of interesting studies done by a lab at Harvard looking at running gait, I found it really interesting to read through: http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/

I'm going to try and use them fairly gently to see if running is something I want to keep up before I replace them ...

Please don't let a pair of shoes that hurt you put you off running all together, as someone else pointed out finding appropriate and comfortable footware if as hard as finding a properly fitting bike. Just as you would only go to a reputable lbs for bike advice the same goes for running - for the most part generic sports stores have no more idea than the advertising hype that they have been fed... go to a specialist running store and get your gait analysed by someone who knows what they are talking about.

Shop in Islington on Upper Street sells the Five Fingers. It's near end of Upper Street at the Highbury end. Small shop on the left hand side.

Im wanting to do start doing a couple of short runs a week, mornings, round brockwell park. Just to get a bit more fitness/drop some pounds really. I've got a pair of saucany (Triax's?) which i did a bit of running in a couple years ago and they seemed comfy enough then. As im literally starting from scratch, i'm gonna start off 5-10mins walking, then build into a jog , mainly run on grass i think and then have a good stretch off back at the house. I don't have the best knees in the world, currently weigh 14.5 stone and im 6ft, im a bit overweight, but i have big thigh muscles etc! I was wondering about this whole barefoot thing (dont wanna go literally barefoot round brixton - dont know what you might step on!). If im starting off slow and steady, would it do my knees etc a bit better to use a conventional running shoe, or i liked the idea of the super flexy Nike Free 3.0?
Thoughts please!?

I spent the 5months preceding Ironman UK last year unable to run at all because of a succession of injuries resulting from a "heel strike" running gait ultimately down to excessive padding in the heel of "technical" running shoes. Over the course of the winter and early this season I have worked on transitioning to a "mid-foot strike" running gait and am running further, faster and with fewer injuries than ever.

I have a pretty bad running gate TBH.
My flat feet over-pronate a bit and I heel strike at all but my highest running pace. So use reasonable technical shoes on the road. I avoid building an injury by mixing in a lot of trail and off-road running, were your gate is constantly changing.

Five fingers did me wonders. I don't run in them exclusively as they take some getting used to for longer runs. They certainly force you to run carefully and to watch your footstrike. I have had a couple of issues that I hope will be changed in the new models -
First the stitching came undone on mine - maybe as the sizing was hard to judge and I got some that are slightly too small.
Second - How do you get the stink out of them! Washing doesn't seem to do much.
Just finished my first marathon and I am going to return to training only in VFFs and see if my next marathon in september will be possible wearing them.

I avoid building an injury by mixing in a lot of trail and off-road running, were your gate is constantly changing.

I agree, I started to do this after all my injuries and it seems to be working well for me. Just got back from a 20km trail run along the Thames and running off road is such a pleasure - I can't recommend it enough! :)

Im wanting to do start doing a couple of short runs a week, mornings, round brockwell park. Just to get a bit more fitness/drop some pounds really. I've got a pair of saucany (Triax's?) which i did a bit of running in a couple years ago and they seemed comfy enough then. As im literally starting from scratch, i'm gonna start off 5-10mins walking, then build into a jog , mainly run on grass i think and then have a good stretch off back at the house. I don't have the best knees in the world, currently weigh 14.5 stone and im 6ft, im a bit overweight, but i have big thigh muscles etc! I was wondering about this whole barefoot thing (dont wanna go literally barefoot round brixton - dont know what you might step on!). If im starting off slow and steady, would it do my knees etc a bit better to use a conventional running shoe, or i liked the idea of the super flexy Nike Free 3.0?
Thoughts please!?

whatever type of shoes you use it would be best if you kept your heels off the ground. dont run using your heel as the first part of your foot to strike, as mentioned above, its a sure fire way of injury and killing your enthusiasm. go into the kitchen, take your shoes off and jog on the spot. see hoe you place your foot gently on the outside edge and ball of your foot and then let your heel drop?? do that while you run and build up slow (your calf muscles need time to change to and get used to this method) like 10 mins to start with.. this way you use the natural flex of your joints, the arch or the foot and the achillies tendon to absorb and propell, -like we were designed-, and not the knees. the key is keeping your posture nice and straight, head up included, and taking lots of smaller steps, where your foot falls (gets placed gently) to the floor just in front of your centre of gravity if not below it, rather than stretching to take big strides and landing on your heel with every single step..

i personally find it hard to run this way in corrective shoes, so if i dont run barefoot i run with the thinnest soled trainers i own and i take out the insoles so there is very little padding to encourage me to heel strike.

i have never enjoyed running before i threw away my corrective shoes. i did three half marathons and several training runs with zero enjoyment. since i changed my running style and binned my corrective shoes, i run with a smile. i actually enjoy it and want to do it more. anecdotal yes, but there is plenty of it out there.

have fun.

Not sure if someone mentioned this before... My mongy toes mean the vibrams wont work.

Any thoughts on the Nike Free series?

http://nikerunning.nike.com/nikeos/p/nikeplus/en_US/products/free5?blogSource=en_US

Not sure Balki, I stay well clear of them, I swear by Saucony or Asics.

I have always worn Asics, but have always felt that they are kinda 'pushing my feet around' if you know what I mean. I feel achey. I always bought them from athletes foot or runners need where I can get the pronation test. Most recent pair have loads of arch support as I pronate a bit, and they give me blisters under my arches.

I want to try the barefoot/natural style shoe.

I used to swear by Asics, and would still use them preferentially, but on a whim bought some Nikes as my current running shoes.
They block overpronation, and other issues with my flat feet, just as well as the Asics used to and hold up much better over time.
Ran in in them to Central London from Putney yesterday, one of my better runs for a good few months.

balki, thats a shitter about the five fingers, I was looking to test them out too.
I'd say get the Nikes, and try them out.

most people who oppose Nike do so out of the misplaced idea that other shoe companies are any better at looking after their employees.

Holy fuck!!!

Toes shortening?????

That has melted my brain.

http://www.inov-8.com/

balki, thats a shitter about the five fingers, I was looking to test them out too.
I'd say get the Nikes, and try them out.

I'd be interested in the outcome of your test.

Tiswas, looks like this place stocks those shoesd you posted

www.londoncityrunner.com

CACK website

Go to the London Marathon store in Covent Garden, I've found these guys to be helpful and knowledgeable. They'll give good advice for free http://www.londonmarathonstore.com/

Good tips dudes... thank you.

New scooter mission tomorrow, I think.

i'm going to start running more this summer as my veloved local pool is closing in a coupl eof weeks. *sob

not a pair of fairly basic NBs last year and haven't had any problems so far. i'm still decidedly remedial when it comes to running. a real plodder. ran home from work (southbank to highbury and iz) a month or so ago and that's about my limit at the mo. would like to start doing that regularly.

I might have stupidly mentioned to a running keen friend that I felt the need to do a marathon next year. he might have taken me seriously. I've never been a fan of running, it hurts me more than it should.
but, that's the plan anyways. plus getting my on road 10k down to a respectable time.
off road/ fell running, i'm much better at.

I reckon running to work is the key. Incorporate the exercise into the day-to-day life. Just like riding.

I cant be fucked coming home, changing, going for a run (or ride for that matter). Been running to work a couple of days a week and really enjoying it. Its only 4 miles, but plug in the ipod, crank up some sludgy stoner rock to plod along to... happy days apart from the twats on bikes.

Bought a great running backpack by this mob http://www.vaude.co.uk/.

Carries my helmet, riding shoes, padded shorts, wallet, phone, keys, clean underwear etc easily and doesnt bounce too much

Not sure if someone mentioned this before... My mongy toes mean the vibrams wont work.

Any thoughts on the Nike Free series?

http://nikerunning.nike.com/nikeos/p/nikeplus/en_US/products/free5?blogSource=en_US

I'd skip 'em, look at the size of that heel, the Free aspect is just a gimmick, with a heel that large their going to be just as bad as a standard trainer.

You want something with a minimal heel and lots of flexibility.

Most recent pair have loads of arch support as I pronate a bit, and they give me blisters under my arches.

Unless something's wrong with your foot you don't need arch support. Again it's just another load of misinformed bullshit coming from the shoe manufacturers through running shoe salesmen to customers.

This is how an arch is supposed to work : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch#Technical_aspects

Like a bridge it's entirely self-supporting, as any engineer will tell as soon as you start sticking support under an arch you completely fuck up it's ability to support and dissipate a load. End result of wearing trainers with arch support is that your arch then starts to collapse due to a weakening of the supporting muscles, so of course you then seek more arch support which perversely makes the problem even worse.

As I was saying on the previous page. The foot is entirely capable of doing the job it has evolved to do, if only people would let it. The more technical the shoe, the worse it is. The more you add to a shoe the worse it is, it's really that simple. The only issue is that running shoe manufacturers and running shoe shops are unable to increase profits unless they can convince runners that the more technical, fancy and expensive the shoe is, the better it makes you run. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a money thing but the sad fact is runners who've bought into this clap-trap end up paying through permanent physical injury, via fucked up knees and the like.

I wouldn't totally dismiss the idea of arch support, metatarsal compression & heel all so quickly. I mean, I realise that running is a natural function of our bodies so we are all capable of doing it unequipped given enough practice/adaptation.

But coming from my interest in industrial design & physiology/kinesiology it is easy to see that in many cases these type of supportive technologies can make things more efficient & safer on the body.

I dont know that much about running yet but a good analogy would be the use of knee supports in weightlifting. The knee is perfectly built for mobility and withstanding forces/impacts in natural planes of motion. (no twisting) Yet the use of supportive knee sleeves is a good piece of equipment to be used always/indefinitely. It keeps the joint warm (ligaments more supple) and creates a larger artificial capsule around the knee reinforcing stability through compression. Both of these make training with weights safer, and reduce unnecessary chronic overuse damage to the knee.

Obsession in being totally natural would suggest that we should all run barefoot. Even ignoring support/cushioning, it is clear to see that a deep tread will grip better than our feet in mud and soft rubber will grip better on concrete. Giving them a clear benefit to making running more efficient, enjoyable & safer.

We did not all expect to live over 80 and avoid arthritis too, during our greater evolutionary history. We expect a lot from our bodies now, often without willing to put in the many years of slow progression and adaption to do something as "simple" as running, perhaps we do need technological assistance.