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mashton Sorry fatbloke, it just kinda fell out of my fingers.
..as George Michael said to the cop...
No offence taken.
I sometimes wonder how many people on here are 'secret motorists' too. Being a cyclist definitely makes me a better driver... It irritates me how people see us as 'cyclists' or 'motorists', as if you can't be both - though I guess there are some on here who are irreconcilably opposed to the car.... blah blah blah, sounds like it ought to be another thread...
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vic [quote]eeehhhh outside Camden Underworld last night after Shai Hulud
...gah, can't believe I wasn't aware of this event - were they any good? Haven't listened to them much since 'Hearts once nourished....'[/quote]
I'd only listened to them round my mate's house, quite a few times though and I really like them. Although last night it was a bit disappointing. The set was really short. The guitarist was saying stuff like "sometimes we just don't want to play but it all depends on the crowd, so if you want us to play another song show us" then they played another, then the same thing again, then played linoleum and that was it.
The support acts were a joke. There were three. First I missed, but the bassist went to the same college as me. He's a a bit of a dick, seems to have a massive problem with me. Second, I only saw half of, but was a bit shite. The third were a total joke, the songs pretty much started with breakdowns and tonnes of "hardcore" guys who work out in the gym far too much windmilling about.
The whole hardcore scene makes me laugh so hard sometimes.
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fatbloke Now now, don't be haters...
It's a petrol-electric hybrid, like a Prius. Drives electrically, silently and emissions-free some of the time in town, but more importantly stops its engine when stationary at the lights or in a jam. But I'd still rather use a bicycle to cross the English Channel than use a car of any kind to cross London... But if I have to get to some tiny village in the back of beyond, then it's car all the way...
what's the deal with the battery?
ie:
how many miles before replacement?
and what happens to it when you replace it?not having a go or anything, i've owned cars and sometimes have to drive 1 for work.
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@ Fatbloke: hybrids are a nonsense. Dust to dust is how a car's impact on the environment should be measured. The energy used in creating a battery big enough to power a car, the amount of working parts to go wrong and the resale value of something that has so many things that can go wrong seriously reduces the viability of this approach. Better off sticking with a normal car, with properly pumped up tyres and minimum weight inside it. I think on a dust to dust basis, land rover defenders rate about the best - people are driving them 30+ years after they roll off the production line. I'm sure Le Car will be able to correct me tho...
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@dogsballs - that looks like it could be the exact correct size... Although Dolan list that bike at £540
I've mailed my buddy - thanks!
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Sano @dogsballs - that looks like it could be the exact correct size... Although Dolan list that bike at £540
I've mailed my buddy - thanks!
but a year old. i'd off £350 to start with. -
@ dr.o - batteries are good for the life of the car and are recyclable when you scrap it, but will be much smaller, lighter and more powerful once lithium-ion becomes affordable enough to replace nickel metal-hydride in cars.
@mouse - dust-to-dust is the best measure, you're right. But there are huge differences in methodology for measuring it - one recent study allotted the majority of a car's total environmental impact to its contruction and recycling and only a small fraction to 20 years and 150,000 miles of burning petrol, which is plainly nonsense.
You're also right that there are some additional environmental costs in building and eventually recycling more complex cars (such as hybrids) but these are comprehensively outweighed by their environmental advantages while in use. Your example of a Defender is a good one - like Porsche 911s, the majority are still on the road. But on some measures, (mainly particulates and oxides of nitrogen) an old Defender will be more polluting than my car by two orders of magnitude - I know which you'd rather be sat behind in traffic!
Hybrids are imperfect - they're heavy, complex, expensive, only deliver real fuel/emissions benefits in traffic and aren't particularly satisfying from an engineering perspective. You're also right that by making ordinary cars simpler, lighter, more aerodynamic and including low-cost green-tech like stop-start systems, we can make small emissions gains that add up to a lot when applied to millions of affordable cars. The VW Polo Bluemotion is a good example.
BUT - this approach doesn't break the bond between cars and petrol/diesel. Hybrids will help us get there - by 2010 GM will have a plug-in hybrid (which you partly charge overnight from the mains) on sale at an affordable price that will do 40 miles purely on electricity, enough for the daily needs of 75 per cent of drivers and meaning all their trips will be free of tailpipe emissions and carbon-fuel use. If you want to go further there's a small petrol engine and a total range of 600+ miles, but you might never need to use it - does that sound like a nonsense?
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@ Fatboke: good on you for being informed and giving a shit. You're right, I'd rather be huffing your fumes, as it were. One thing tho, unless I'm being thick, how much greener is electricity vs. petrol/diesel? Surely that's down to how the electricity is produced? And also isn't it a bit myopic to relate the pollution to just where the car is? I've never understood this esp. with those G-Whizz cars. Plug em in and the grid is still churning and coal is being poured into those power plants.
My problem with hybrids is that it allows people to buy things like the RX400h with a free conscience. That car is a complete nonsense for all the reasons you mentioned. Polo Bluemotion is a great example of lateral thinking - reduce weight and engine size and increase efficiency.
The great thing is that there is now a consumer demand - manufacturers can charge a premium for green technology which means there is a business argument to develop it. When the Golf Blue Motion comes next year I think there will be even more interest. Still, they will also be bringing out the Touareg R50 at the same time, which just shows the paradox of choice.
We're all consumers (even loaded Japanese designers). We just have more choice than ever how to spend our cash. Some people make better choices (hybrid engines and sweet track bikes) others don't. Before we bitch about boxfresh track bikes, let's not forget the conspicuous consumption that is in bad taste (I'm thinking premiership footballers and their WAGs as by way of comparison).
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"how much greener is electricity vs. petrol/diesel?"
One thing is that a car engine is not running at is's optimum most of the time, while a power station, even though using coal (and sometime big jet engines on back up generators to cope with power surges like football matches tea time e.t.c) can be kept closely monitored and run more efficiently, the combustion can be slowly increased rather than revved up all of a sudden e.t.c plus due to the close contorl you can make sure you are getting as compleat a combustion as possible.
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Also people should also remember that apparently you can get about 20 - 30% better fuel efficiently just by driving smoothly (e.g not over taking cyclist when you have to brake really hard as you pass because there is a cue of traffic in front of you). I think to save 30 % though you would have to be a really bad driver to stat off with.
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Good point on the enviro impact of electricity production. Yes, you're displacing your pollution to the power station rather than the tailpipe. BUT - you are reducing it too. The actual reduction depends on the grid mix where you are - at least fifty per cent in the UK, more like 90 per cent in a 'clean-grid' state like California. There are different kinds of pollution, of course - CO2 is much reduced, particulates less so. You can always sign up for a green 'leccy tariff too, which at least encourages investment in renewables.
But the big point is that if all cars burn oil we have to keep burning it. If cars are at least partially electric, we have a choice about how we produce that electricity, and are less vulnerable to spiking oil prices and the stuff running out, as it will very soon. I hate to say it, but nuclear is about the only option we have if we don't want to go back to the Dark Ages.
Agree that a lot of people buy hybrids just because it makes them feel better. I'm fully aware of the limited environmental benefit - although it does exist. I have mine (GS450h) because it's cleaner and as economical as a powerful diesel, but mainly because with the petrol and electric motors working together it has a shit-load of instant torque and is wicked fast (60 in under 6 seconds...)
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Got to remember though that more CO2 is emitted during the production of brand new car than in the lifetime of the car running on the roads.
fatbloke I hate to say it, but nuclear is about the only option we have if we don't want to go back to the Dark Ages.
That's not correct. There are plenty of renewable sources of energy, however, they require more money initially than a nuclear power plant, hence why people are more keen to build nuclear power plants, and a lot of the technology is already there (then again, there is a lack of nuclear physicists/engineers at present) Building more nuclear power plants totally undermines all other efforts for renewable, environmentally friendly, energy.
If fusion was mastered, on the other hand, our energy troubles would be over.
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eeehhhh Got to remember though that more CO2 is emitted during the production of brand new car than in the lifetime of the car running on the roads.
Made this point before, but studies vary wildly on this - most agree that way more is produced in use rather than in production, and factories are getting greener quickly
That's not correct. There are plenty of renewable sources of energy, .
Sure, and I'm all for them, but there's absolutely no way they will ever be able to produce energy on a scale to replace oil and coal, particularly with the massive increase in energy demand from India and China...
But like I said, we should take this outside...
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We're all consumers (even loaded Japanese designers). We just have more choice than ever how to spend our cash. Some people make better choices (hybrid engines and sweet track bikes) others don't. Before we bitch about boxfresh track bikes, let's not forget the conspicuous consumption that is in bad taste (I'm thinking premiership footballers and their WAGs as by way of comparison).
when is consumption ever inconspicuous? when the informed consider it to be no more than necessary? the life style of most westerners is a result of surplus and excess. our landfills may bury yesterdays modest technology but half the world live in another century (with perhaps a mobile as a symbol of an epoch to aspire to). it's never been better and it's never been worse. and really we're just meant to enjoy having our heads turned by the options and then no more than nod our heads for perspectives on this?
but hey, at least we no longer force people to do stuff - we now help them (force themselves) to do stuff.
if the the conspicuous consumption (of people, products and atmosphere) caused by the nuclear attacks on japan didn't galvanise people against capitalist agendas (consumerism being the 'friendly' face of these) then a few WAGs getting dressed up is to bad taste what farting is to a hurricane.anyway talk about thread drift, gotta dash now, spend some dollar, consume some product, maybe spot me on the way with not a care in the world (i just off loaded:)
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dr.oblong
if the the conspicuous consumption (of people, products and atmosphere) caused by the nuclear attacks on japan didn't galvanise people against capitalist agendas (consumerism being the 'friendly' face of these) then a few WAGs getting dressed up is to bad taste what farting is to a hurricane.spotted: overly developed mind going off the rails
fatbloke
eeehhhh
dr.oblong
justMouse
Sano
dogsballs
TheBrick(Tommy)
Elvis
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sano
45cm too small?!
FOR SALE: Dolan Track Bike (pictured right). 45cm frame, carbon fork upgrade, see http://www.terrydolan.co.uk for full spec. Pristine condition, less than 11 months old. Can be seen/collected in South Wales/South West. Current new price £550. Best offer before Cristmas secures; new bike arriving soon. Contact Nicky 0775 243 2028
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/site/BC/mem/classified_ads/classified_ads.asp