Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

I wasnt thinking I would get any improvement really, a new huming sound would be nice though, and I'll save about 70g of rotating mass which cant hurt.

Impact damage hopefully isnt an issue as I'm a fairly cautious rider and haven't damaged a wheel that way before.
Theft aint a problem either as it is either in my flat or locked in a secure underground facility.
Cost is a factor but I would have thought a china rim shouldnt cost any more than £100. And my front rim is nearly dead now, so Im going to have to spend 50 quid to replace it anyway, so instead I could move my rear archetype to the front and replace it with new crabon.

But yeah, I was mainly inquiring about if there are any issues with fatigue. I'm guessing spoke holes can crack, is this a common problem?
And whats the deal with internal or external nipples, is one more suitable than the other in this instance? Or are nipple washers a good idea?

Just finished lacing my first wheel. hopefully its put together better than my photography skills.

somebody mind doing a sanity check on it for me. The masking tape marks the valve hole.

Nothing obviously wrong, though the photo is quite poor.

You can check the wheel yourself by working methodically around it checking all the patterns:

• at the hub, alternate spokes are inbound (head out) and outbound (head in), and alternately trailing and leading
  
• whether it's the inbound or outbound spokes that are trailing on each side matches what you were going for.
  
• every spoke has the correct number of crosses, and the last cross is woven
  
• at the rim, alternate spokes go to alternate sides of the hub, and this pattern matches the rim hole off-set pattern (if present)
  
• around the rim, spokes follow a two leading, two trailing pattern, and those pairs of spokes go to hub holes that are on different flanges but almost line up, and don't cross one another on the way
  
• if you take out the slack, then look along the axle at the wheel, the spokes form a regular pattern of identical 'petals'
  
• the valve hole is where you wanted it in the pattern, and if you care, the logo on the hub is facing it
  

At the rim, if the holes are offset alternately, they are offset towards the flange that spoke is connected to. First time, I got it wrong.

But yeah, I was mainly inquiring about if there are any issues with fatigue. I'm guessing spoke holes can crack, is this a common problem?
And whats the deal with internal or external nipples, is one more suitable than the other in this instance? Or are nipple washers a good idea?

It mighy be worth PMing Smallfurry, or having a hunt for his road wheel build posts. He used both.

I think the idea of washers is to distribute the stress from the spoke pull over a larger area... so they seem like a good idea on carbon rims.

Impact damage hopefully isnt an issue as I'm a fairly cautious
But yeah, I was mainly inquiring about if there are any issues with fatigue. I'm guessing spoke holes can crack, is this a common problem?
And whats the deal with internal or external nipples, is one more suitable than the other in this instance? Or are nipple washers a good idea?

My logic is often messy, and twisted, but here it is.

Internal nipples are mainly for aero characteristics. But I used them because they require a smaller rim hole drilled, and you end up with a bigger nipple contact area. So less nasty shear on the carbon.

Spoke washers compensate for the fact that the rim drilling is unlikely to face exactly in the direction of the spoke. (the nipple face is rounded, which also compensates I guess) So again you get more contact area.

Trying to thread internal spoke washers onto the spokes of a 50mm deep rim is a recipe for madness. So use thick lube to hold them onto the internal nipple face.

Not a great pic. But you can kinda see how small the drillings in the rim are.(looks neat too)

Butters, I think you may have successfully used these in the past?

Yeah man - EDD calculator values worked fine for System EX hubs.

I've just started trying to build some wheels for the first time. I took my rims and hubs down to LBS and asked for some spokes the right length to lace them up 3 cross. However after soon realising they are too short. I have measured everything myself and put the details in to a spoke calculator. I think either the guy in the shop has just got his sums wrong or he mistakenly thought i asked for 2 cross.

The only reason i was doing 3 cross was because thats what the wheels i took off the bike were. So my question is would there be any major draw backs to lacing the wheels 2 cross or should i just take the spokes back and ask for the right length spokes? They are 36h clincher rims going on to some low flange rims.

36h 2x small flange is a long way from tangential spoking, so I wouldn't do it

^this. Take them back and get them to swap to the correct length.

Okay, so I've just received a pair of Rigida Sputnik rims and I need to order spokes. The manufacturer states an ERD of 600 but I want to measure them up myself.

Based on the Edd's instructions, I've taken measurements at six equal points around both rims like so:

On the first rim the value of X was always 584mm. On the second rim, the value of X was different each time but it averaged out to be 584mm.

I was using 12mm nipples so I've worked out the ERD to be 608mm based on the following:

584+(12×2)=608

Now, have I done this correctly? Should I use an ERD of 608 to calculate my spoke length and ignore the manufacturers stated ERD of 600?

I built a set of wheels on Sputniks using the manufacturer's ERD of 600, calculated with the Wheelpro spoke calculator (though Edd gives the same figures) and the spokes came up too short. I'm not sure if 608 is correct but 600 certainly seemed to be wrong to me.

I've got some spokes and nipples that I'm not going to need now (messed up my measurements on the last wheel build).

40x black 288mm DT Swiss Champion - laced but too long to tension so as good as new. £10 (no nipples)

32x black 290mm DT Swiss Champion - I bought these with a pair of hubs they had done some miles but I've never laced them up so I'd like to get my £5 back (these have 12mm brass nipples with them)

I also have 32x 12mm Sapim brass nipples, these will work with either of the DT spokes above. Unused, £1.

Any takers?

I built a set of wheels on Sputniks using the manufacturer's ERD of 600, calculated with the Wheelpro spoke calculator (though Edd gives the same figures) and the spokes came up too short. I'm not sure if 608 is correct but 600 certainly seemed to be wrong to me.

Ahh, that makes me feel like I've got this right. I was very tempted to just trust the manufacturer like I've done for the past two wheelsets I've built but after seeing Spotter waste 72 spokes and about an entire day I thought I'd measure ERD myself from now on. I'm pleased I did.

Can anyone confirm from experience that I've measured correctly?

You've used the right technique, so assuming the nipples are definitely 12mm (i.e., you measured them as well to check) then you should be correct, although I'd be tempted to knock 2mm off the total as you'd probably want the spoke to end level with the base of the slot in the nipple head, not the face of the nipple head (if that makes sense).

I've just checked and Edd actually has two listings for 700C / 622 Sputniks in the database - one is the manufacturer's and one seems to be a measurement, and the latter lists the ERD as 606mm. Might be that Rigida's figure of 600 is the nipple seat diameter rather than ERD.

Based on the rim depth, I'd say 604 to 606 for Sputnik, can't remember what I used for the several that I've built

Cheers guys, looks like 606 will be a good one to settle on.

That said, my measurements come out to be 288.8 for the front and 289.5 for the rear, yet I can only get 288mm or 290mm spokes. Would either suffice?

If your calculations are correct, building with 288mm f&r will work

^^ Look further up if you want some spokes to try out mate. For cheapz.

right wheel building wizards.

building a front wheel and it's been a while so i'm out of practice so to speak (i.e, I'm struggling even more than the last few times i've done this).

wheel is 2 cross, 32 hole.

all my trailing spokes have an extra 2mm of thread showing, and are 'tighter' than the leading spokes that are baggy with the equivalent thread showing, and about the same tightness if you tightened them much more (a good 4mm of thread)

what the fuck have I done wrong? It's an ambrosio excellight rim so the eyelets are all centered.

been getting frustrated and randomly tightening spokes thinking it will solve itself... maybe better left for another evening I think : /

http://www.lfgss.com/post3141860-386.html

@roboto: I will take all of those spokes and nipples

Ok, drop me a PM when you can (you should be out the nursery soon enough) and we can arrange something.

do you think its alright if that i need a 285mm spoke but instead use a 284mm spoke?