Lance Armstrong... greatest doper there was or ever will be

Been thinking about this, quite a bit. IMHO, let's go down the road, that Lances' vitamin pills were a little more than that...

The purpose of drug-testing is..?

Therefore, if he has been on the gear, then ALL those tests, have proved in-effective.

There is no doubt at all he has been tested frequently, regardless on which side of the fence your sitting.

If he did dope, then he did his job... unlike all those, involved with deciding the protocol for testing.

In 2000 he beat Ulrich, and Pantani, was it possible either / both of them were on the gear too..? hmmn... maybe...

Lanceypoo, just has massive lungs, eats lactic acid for breakfast... probably on or off the stuff he is quite physiologically blessed.

Without the weight loss from cancer doubtful he ever would have been able to climb so well.

Interestingly the owners of Le Tour, own l'equipe, so any controversy fuels the fire, sells more papers... etc.etc.

2011-2012 Lance top 5 Iron-man Hawaii ??? odds ?

I haven't really been able to pinpoint a... well... point in this ^ ?

Are you saying even if he doped, he did it really well. And therefore, it's not really doping because the machines didn't catch it? And that if he was doping, so were others, so he still won fair and square?

**Without the weight loss from cancer doubtful he ever would have been able to climb so well.

**you need to do more research; the weight loss is a myth. In fact one of the few things Armstrong has admitted lying about is his weight.

only the stupid get caught ;) . as i said earlier marion jones completed her entire career without a failed drugs test.

to dope properly you will do it under proper medical supervision. its not just a matter of taking EPO and you get better. you have to take a whole host of other things to cope with increased red cell production.

if you go by my theory of him being "allowed" certain drugs based on his cancer ie hormones etc due to loss of testicle. he was theoretically only replacing what was missing. This may allow him to keep under the legal limits OR because the UCI new he was taking those particular drugs didn't screen for them as they knew he would be over the limit.

ullrich and pantani were two of the biggest drug fiends of cycling, EVER!! pity as they were two of the most talented.

Where to start?

Been thinking about this, quite a bit. IMHO, let's go down the road, that Lances' vitamin pills were a little more than that...

The purpose of drug-testing is..?

Therefore, if he has been on the gear, then ALL those tests, have proved in-effective.

The times have been shown, time and time again, to be ineffective. There was no test for EPO until the Sydney Olympics in 2000. There is still no test to detect when someone has transfused some of their own blood (which is alleged to be Armstrong's doping method). Most big name riders who've been busted, such as Basso, Ullrich, Virenque, Zuelle, et al, have been caught by criminal justice investigations.

There is no doubt at all he has been tested frequently, regardless on which side of the fence your sitting.

If he did dope, then he did his job... unlike all those, involved with deciding the protocol for testing.

In 2000 he beat Ulrich, and Pantani, was it possible either / both of them were on the gear too..? hmmn... maybe...

Armstrong was tested a lot, but not as often as he claims, i.e. he was never the most tested athlete on the planet. The USADA publish an annual list of tests and Armstrong rarely figured in the top 100.

Ullrich was caught up in Operacion Puerto and rode for Team Telekom, who it is known ran a team doping programme out of Freiburg University. Matt Rendell's excellent book on Pantani details evidence that he doped throughout his career.

Lanceypoo, just has massive lungs, eats lactic acid for breakfast... probably on or off the stuff he is quite physiologically blessed.

Without the weight loss from cancer doubtful he ever would have been able to climb so well.

Armstrong is a good athlete but he's not exceptional in the way Greg Lemond was.

The weight loss from cancer is a myth. Read up on it here;

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

How to beat doping controls... sachets of instant dehydrated piss, shoving chemicals down your japs eye (racist!) to wreck the sample etc. really quite creative.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/01/how-cycling-pros-defeat-anti-doping.html

Bernard Kohl has confirmed the transfusion methods described were employed were in use elsewhere..

**"That was exactly the way I also did it," [Kohl** told the Wall Street Journal](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704075604575357423818505614.html), referring to Landis’ description of how the transfusions were carried out by the team. "The details of the blood bags and the checking for cameras and microphones, the cutting up of the bags and flushing them in the toilet…it all took place in exactly that way."

great article andy, especially as an exercise physiologist. man i wish i went on and did my research with the AIS :(. i did my honours thesis there.

some more reading if so inclined

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/cycling/7110772.html

tailwind affair
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38261133/

That first link still perpetuate two myths; that Armstrong lost considerable weight from his cancer that meant he could suddenly climb with the best, he didn't, his weight post cancer was about the same as his weight pre-cancer; and that he was the most tested athlete, he wasn't.

from the nbc sports article:
*"Speaking to reporters at the Tour, Armstrong also spoke critically of the investigation, asking rhetorically if the American people “feel like this is a good use of their tax dollars?” He said that while he was respectful of the process, he would only cooperate in a “legitimate and credible and fair investigation,” not a “witch hunt,” before finishing, “I’ve done too many good things for too many people.” **Armstrong has sometimes been accused of using his work with his cancer foundation as a shield against criticism. That is a charge I’ve never made. But I’ve also never heard him invoke that substantive and important legacy in such a bold fashion as he did today. And he seems to be willfully unaware that this is a federal criminal investigation; his interest in participating is immaterial. *
*Armstrong’s work on behalf of fighting cancer isn’t the issue here. The issue is whether or not Floyd Landis is telling the truth and, if he is, whether Lance Armstrong knowingly used Postal Service money to dope to win the Tour de France and enrich himself, thus defrauding the federal government. *
*I don’t know what’s up with Lance Armstrong these days, on the bike or off. But I wonder if he doesn’t wake up some days and wish he’d just stayed retired" *

Look like the noose is tightening.

Look like the moose is titillating.

Steady Eddie.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

i couldnt give a f*ck if he doped or lied about it, i hope he beats the case

That first link still perpetuate two myths; that Armstrong lost considerable weight from his cancer that meant he could suddenly climb with the best, he didn't, his weight post cancer was about the same as his weight pre-cancer; and that he was the most tested athlete, he wasn't.

true, but that other article he mentioned that he thaught lance was 5 5' and 79kg. not sure if that is a typo or what.

interesting to see a figure of $100k that he paid the UCI. lance, just come clean, at you shagged cheryl crow, errr, actually..

In case anyone wants to get a jump on the effigy-making, Cycle Surgery Holborn have got a 20ft canvas poster of Armstrong that they've just put out with the bins, literally couldn't give it away.

is it because he cheated and he cheated and his attitude that he displayed (and the way he conducted himself) that drives the hatred?

i ask, as a niave, if the field was/is level (everyone is at it argument), would it be acceptable for him to volte face and say "sorry". would it then be possible to look at his extremely tough persona/style and think "yeah. he was tough, look at X when he fell off and chased everyone down".

is he, i think i'm trying to ask, a bit like roy keane? hard, unpopular, skilled, only liked by those who are on the same side?

(sorry for bringing football into the discussion. i've just been thinking about his attitude and what it reminds me of)

It's subtle, but what he means to say is that 'Floyd has lied', or, better still, 'has been lying' to the public for years...

Many American vernaculars use simple past tenses instead of the perfect past alternatives* you offer, so I wouldn't be too swift to draw that conclusion about the subtle use of language indicating intent.

*Sorry I don't have a reference to hand for this, but you can hear it very often, e.g. "did you eat (en-US) already?" vs "have you eaten already?" (en-GB). My anecdotal observation is that among younger people in the UK there is a shift towards dropping the perfect for the simple past.

LeMond gets his subpoena: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news_headlines

The subpoena, which was issued by a grand jury in the US District Court of the Central District of California, demands documents and testimony from LeMond concerning his knowledge of the alleged practices of the four teams for which Armstrong has ridden since his return from cancer in 1998: US Postal Service, Discovery Channel, Astana, and Radio Shack.

What sort of documents would LeMond have?

LeDocuments.

LeGal ones? Ones which could be used in a LeTigation process?

'LeGedly, yes.

**Without the weight loss from cancer doubtful he ever would have been able to climb so well.

**you need to do more research; the weight loss is a myth. In fact one of the few things Armstrong has admitted lying about is his weight.

Thanks Will interesting article...

Mind you, how tall is he really ? 5'5"-5'6" as that article suggests..? hmmn...

Has Lanceypoo drawn more attention to cycling ? YES
Could I beat him regardless of how many drugs I took..? NO
Is he an arrogant ? selfish? YES

I know they hate him in France with le passion.