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BMW Makes some of the best, and most innovative frames out there - to call them crap show a complete lack of understanding of anything to do with frame design or manufacture

??? What innovations have they made? Or what good bikes have they ever made?
Their DH bikes are horrible, their dirt jumpers are stock standard and pretty much the same as all others, BMX bikes i know nothing about so i can't comment, and their "track" bike is nothing special at all.

I hope that was a joke?
They're a pair of top class wheels, not a fucking ten minute wedding chapel in Vegas!

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??? What innovations have they made? Or what good bikes have they ever made?
Their DH bikes are horrible, their dirt jumpers are stock standard and pretty much the same as all others, BMX bikes i know nothing about so i can't comment, and their "track" bike is nothing special at all.

You clearly know nothing about any of them!

They were making 'V' brakes years before shimano.
They were one of the first companies to offer components that were actually capable of handling abuse when everyone else was still trying to save weight.

As for their dirt jumpers being stock standard, they were making them before they were even called dirt jumpers! BMW are approaching 2Oyrs old and the Park bike was their first frame.

Their 'track' bike was totally unique too when it was released. How many other fixed frames were using jump bike strength tubing and allowing for bar spins and fat tyres 4 years ago? and how many are now?

Their DH frames may not fit into the lightweight trend that is popular today, but they are one of the smoothest and strongest DH bikes made.

Learn your history before you go shit talking!

??? What innovations have [BMW} made? ....

Apparently they invented telescopic forks and v-brakes. [citation needed]

EDIT: Grobags has got there before me on the brakes and I think the fork thing I found refers to BerlinMW.

You clearly know nothing about any of them!

They were making 'V' brakes years before shimano.
They were one of the first companies to offer components that were actually capable of handling abuse when everyone else was still trying to save weight.

As for their dirt jumpers being stock standard, they were making them before they were even called dirt jumpers! BMW are approaching 2Oyrs old and the Park bike was their first frame.

Their 'track' bike was totally unique too when it was released. How many other fixed frames were using jump bike strength tubing and allowing for bar spins and fat tyres 4 years ago? and how many are now?

Their DH frames may not fit into the lightweight trend that is popular today, but they are one of the smoothest and strongest DH bikes made.

Learn your history before you go shit talking!

golf claps

Apparently they invented telescopic forks and v-brakes. [citation needed]

EDIT: Grobags has got there before me on the brakes and i think the fork thing i found refers to BerlinMW.

Yeah, i think the fork thing is stretching things a little too far. :]

Learn your history before you go shit talking!
is that an excuse for making shit frames today? Hardly.

Explain to me why in your opinion they're 'shit'.

Explain to me why in your opinion they're 'shit'.
old technology, overly heavy, not better than the competition.
Go have a look at Intense bikes or Santa Cruz.

excuse my ignorance, but surely weight is irrelevant on downhill bikes?

EDIT: okay not irrelevant, but not something that is going to be top of your priorities really?

Nah weight is relevent in modern DH, it has got to the level of competition where riders are doing wind tunnel experiments to find which equipment is most aerodynamic, and which pedalling positions are most aerodynamic. Lycra skinsuits are now illegal so teams, especially Trek, are looking for every advantage possible.

hehe....if THAT is the best argument you can come up with Autti i won't waste my time. :]

I didn't realise you were gonna get all 'technical' on me. :]

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2006/10

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can you tell me why they are good bikes?
Outdated designs and tech why bother buy one?

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@Autti
Just because they don't 'rent' the same VPP design as santa cruz and intense and several others, and don't rely on hydroformed aluminium doesn't mean they use outdated designs and technology.
You might want to look into just how many broken Intense DH frames there have been over the years.
I know people that have broken one a season. I know one person who broke more than that, then got so sick of breaking them that he bought a brooklyn, then won the european champs on it.

One of the reasons intense are so popular is because they have a great warranty policy.

This whole discussion has been done to death though and even i'm bored of defending BMW's now.
Ride what you want to ride, believe whichever hype you want to believe.

BMW make great bikes, which are great to ride, and last a LONG time.
But that's just my opinion and it's no more right or wrong than anybody elses.