Weight / Fat loss

Has anyone tried this 5 / 2 diet everyone seems to be raving about?

It has been discussed before (and tends to bring out polar opinions in either direction).
I found that it worked, but I began to develop a tendency towards over control, which I felt was unhealthy.
In reality its just calorie counting by another name.

^ I guess so, but within a framework, which personally I find easier to work with as left with too much freedom I have a tendency to go out of kilter. A bit of structure is a good thing for me. Might give it a whirl and report back.

Last year I managed to lose 4 stone, however 2 have crept back on over the past 6 + months. Am aiming to knock those back off again.

I haven't done much research into it but does it ever give you the freedom to relax and have special meal or a few beers? If it doesn't then I can't see how it works long term, all the fat lass's in my office are trying it which to me suggests its a pile of pish, but then like anything it'll work for some and not for others..

I imagine it'd be a quick way to mess up one's metabolism, no?

VanUden, I'm no expert (at all) but if you're putting 2 stone back on in 6 months, I'm guessing a long term lifestyle/diet change would be more effective than yoyo-ing. That'd probably mean slower weight loss but more stable and consistent energy/mood wise.

Spending time this week trying to get my diet in order, and actually getting up in the morning.

Reading the Starting Strength stuff, very interesting. Think I'll give it a go. Not sure when to start though, as I really struggle to work out the amount I should be eating when training. Before I never cared, and sure I gained strength but also a fat stomach :P

Food breakdown:

Net Calories Consumed* / Day 1,582 cal/day
Carbs / Day 20 g
Fat / Day 123 g
Protein / Day 99 g

but that's with no exercise at all. I work from home so don't even cycle these days. I've no idea what to change that to if I start doing SS (and some cycling inbetween). Thoughts ?

Starting Strength is good; Rippetoe knows his shit. I highly recommend it to anyone, and really read through it all. Some of it might seem overkill, but it's easy to miss stuff and end up doing it wrong.

I've been doing the program for a little while. I haven't lost much weight, but I did lose 8 cm on my gut and look like I've lost significant weight. I'm constantly adding weight to the exercises, although I'm starting to hit plateaus that take a bit to punch through.

Starting Strength is good; Rippetoe knows his shit.

Dissenting opinion.

I haven't lost much weight

It's hard to lose weight and build strength at the same time. Running a calorie deficit affects recovery, tends to exhaustion and increases the risk of error/injury. A lot of people doing strength training alternate building and cutting, for these reasons.

I think this statement by Arnold best sums up arguing over training (not that I'm saying you are arguing rather offering differing opinion)

Thanks for sharing this.
Everybody, behave and stop bickering. This is about inspiring more people to get into fitness. I've never understood people who argue constantly about who is wrong and who is right in fitness, because the fact is, there are many "right" answers, especially for people just starting out.
Do you think Sergio Oliva and I did the same thing? No. In fact, you could walk into Gold's and watch the 5 best guys and see 5 completely different routines. And you know what? We didn't argue.
Do me a favor. Try to focus more on expanding the fitness community as a whole than protecting your little corner of it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1i2w2z/best_damn_cardio_humanly_possible_in_15_minutes/cb0ky70

I haven't done much research into it but does it ever give you the freedom to relax and have special meal or a few beers? If it doesn't then I can't see how it works long term, all the fat lass's in my office are trying it which to me suggests its a pile of pish, but then like anything it'll work for some and not for others..

It does give you the option to eat 'normally' including dining out or a few beers. It's just 2 non-consecutive days out of 7 in a week that you restrict your intake to 600 calories for a bloke and 500 for a girl.

I think this statement by Arnold best sums up arguing over training

FWIW, I own a copy of Starting Strength

Re the 5:2 diet, it is meant to seriously mess up your metabolism and one of the major factors against is that you may overeat on the 5 days. Particularly as on the 2 days you are effectively starving yourself and this can cause all sorts of cravings.

I've been taught the 80:20 rule (not the 80:20 diet). Stick to your healthy eating regime 80% of the time, and the 20% you don't, won't make that difference, and regulate your blood sugar, so that you can make intelligent decisions about your meals. It is working for me.

Re the 5:2 diet, it is meant to seriously mess up your metabolism and one of the major factors against is that you may overeat on the 5 days. Particularly as on the 2 days you are effectively starving yourself and this can cause all sorts of cravings.

I've been taught the 80:20 rule (not the 80:20 diet). Stick to your healthy eating regime 80% of the time, and the 20% you don't, won't make that difference, and regulate your blood sugar, so that you can make intelligent decisions about your meals. It is working for me.

I don't think that eating 600 calories on a 'fasting' day is starving yourself. If people over compensate by gorging on pizza during the days they can eat normally then they're not eating normally and it probably won't work.

I might give it a go. It seems to work well for a lot of people with no bad effects. We'll see, nothing ventured and all that.

Dissenting opinion.

It's hard to lose weight and build strength at the same time. Running a calorie deficit affects recovery, tends to exhaustion and increases the risk of error/injury. A lot of people doing strength training alternate building and cutting, for these reasons.

Thanks for the link, I skimmed it but will read it in full later. I'm up for learning more as I certainly won't pretend to know all the ins and outs of fitness and nutrition.

And my comment about not losing weight was probably not written well. I fully don't expect to lose weight if I'm adding muscle, that's why I was talking about my waist measurement. For me, the number on the scale isn't a big deal. I'd rather feel good and be fit to do the things I want to do. Admittedly, if you're goal is to climb Ventoux, than adding weight as muscle might not be a good idea.

Still, Starting Strength has worked well for me and I enjoy lifting weights. I like feeling stronger, and am vain enough to enjoy looking better, even if it doesn't move the number on the scale down. But I should temper my recommendation; it depends on whatever your goals are and YMMV etc.

Okay, I just read the article and I don't disagree with it. Interestingly, I don't know about the cult of Starting Strength as I go to the gym and train: I've honestly never struck up a conversation with a 'bro' there. I have limited time at the gym and have no patience to chat with dudes in Gold's Gym string tank tops.

I first heard about Starting Strength at my cycle fit with the Bike Whisperer. He recommended it to me. I had never heard of Mark Rippetoe before that.

I do love the emphasis on full-body compound exercises. I still do a few other exercises such as chinups, pullups and barbell rows, but otherwise I do hew closely to his routine.

The only criticism I have of that link is that the author discounts Rippetoe's emphasis on the deadlift to focus on the power clean. Yes, that's in there, but he does present it as a more advanced move and it isn't part of the beginning routine.

However, I do agree that his description of the power clean is partly lacking. I don't think that is a fault of Rippetoe, but just that this is a damned hard exercise to do. I struggle with it and feel it's my weakest; I know my form isn't perfect but it's fecking hard to try to sort that on your own, or from a book. I would **fucking love **to read something that set me straight and made me perform that better.

A bit of the criticism in that article felt a bit silly to me. Sure, this is nothing new and I don't think Rippetoe acts like he invented all of this. I like the fact that it's nothing new. There are way too many fitness fads. Show me what the hard-assed bastards did 50 years ago that is still applicable and you have my attention.

Overall, it's a good read. I don't think he really exposes any flaw in Rippetoe's method. He is targeting the power clean, the most difficult move to try to explain in text, and focusing on the cult following he's gained. Neither of which is his fault nor a reason to think that Starting Strength is lacking.

He does give him credit for focusing on compound, full-body moves and ditching the silly bodybuilding fads. Overall, it's an interesting read, but I don't think a real critique of Rippetoe.

I would love to learn how to power clean properly though. I am very much aware of that three times a week.

I don't think that eating 600 calories on a 'fasting' day is starving yourself.

I don't know. Anything under your BMR I would class as 'starving yourself'

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

Also, shoes. I seriously recommend weightlifting shoes if you're doing Starting Strength. Or just doing squats and deadlifts, really.

I don't know. Anything under your BMR I would class as 'starving yourself'

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

Regardless of what a BMI calculator might say one of the things that appeals to me about this 5 / 2 diet is that back in the day there would have been days when we wouldn't have eaten because food was scarce or unavailable. I'm sure our bodies haven't changed that much since then - in fact I know they haven't.

I mostly found Starting Strength very useful. Just interesting to see other views on it.

Re the 5:2 diet, it is meant to seriously mess up your metabolism and one of the major factors against is that you may overeat on the 5 days. Particularly as on the 2 days you are effectively starving yourself and this can cause all sorts of cravings.

I've been taught the 80:20 rule (not the 80:20 diet). Stick to your healthy eating regime 80% of the time, and the 20% you don't, won't make that difference, and regulate your blood sugar, so that you can make intelligent decisions about your meals. It is working for me.

Sound advice. I've been having great results with something similar, upping the protein intake has been a major factor, but I'm still having drinks at the weekend and I'm not living like a monk. It's about a controlled change in mindset, out go the bowls of pasta, in come high protein, bowls of chicken, veg and a small handful of pasta or noodles.

Another boost has been incorporating decent rest days. I was going 5/6 days to the gym, playing 5s and cycling then wondering why I was at a plateau. It's now 3-4 trips to the gym, adding in 2k runs and only one game of 5s.

Cross training varying your exercise routines usually makes a difference as well as being less dull.

The other point about the 5:2 diet is that if you cycle to work you will end up calorie deficient during the day, you'll feel exhausted. The quality of your work and concentration might also suffer but seeing as most people play on here all day that might not be an issue.

I just ate most of a cheesecake, it was delicious.

Cross training varying your exercise routines usually makes a difference as well as being less dull.

The other point about the 5:2 diet is that if you cycle to work you will end up calorie deficient during the day, you'll feel exhausted. The quality of your work and concentration might also suffer but seeing as most people play on here all day that might not be an issue.

When I did the massive diet last year there were days I was consuming no more than around 600 to 700 calories. It's not starvation, your body gets used to it and I actually felt sharper and had more energy a lot of the time.

When we were running around gathering berries and looking for things to kill there would have been days when we would have gone without (or with very little) food.

I think the most important thing with all of this is finding whatever works best for the individual.

71.9 this morning, riding 70 miles to work and back including a few errands and not using it as an excuse to eat everything clearly works...

Must remember this!

71.9 this morning, riding 70 miles to work and back including a few errands and not using it as an excuse to eat everything clearly works...

Must remember this!

the 5X5 workout is going well for me. I noticed my knee starting to ache on the squats last night though and thought my form had slipped.

Funnily enough I don't ache what so ever this morning even with heavier weights. Whereas last week when I went 5 times to the gym I ached a lot more on a lower weight. It took more effort though last night due to being sick at the start of the week.