Track racing bike-build

I am wanting to build/buy a very nice track bike for all-round track racing. Need to start with a top frame and then intend adding Campag Record pista chainset and Pista or Mavic Elipse wheels. So the frame, my size based on my TT and road bikes is effective horizontal top tube of 54-55cm. Have been looking at carbon frames and ideally would like to find a great one second hand - would prefer not to go the Planet-X route. Other option is to go new alu - like the images of Look 464 I have seen...some guys at the Reading track use the Koga Pro Track which looks good. Another friend has a Isaac Velocity which he uses to good effect... thoughts? Got the right frame for me?

Cheers

'Wheels

Post in the wanted section of the forum?
And maybe loose the sig, as your name is in big writing on the left of every post.
Just sayin'

@Marlowwheels: I guess if you have road and tt bikes already then you know what you like. When I was looking I was considering an alu track frame but ended up with 853 super-awesome steel. It has a more attractive personality but I couldn't tell you about the ride quality. I wonder why you don't want to go PX? Too common? Too breakable? Too factory?

I kind of think that on the track kit is a lot less of a variable to your performance than on the road, apart (maybe) from stiffness. But talking about your kit is conversely more important down the track. So, probably, anything you get will be fine, as long as you are happy with it & it fits. A quick scan of the Herne Hill Track league shows no correlation between bike material & league standings.

BC or cycling weekly classifieds seem to be a good bet - or the noticeboards at the track.

No carbon or steel in the top 15 at Herne Hill. Draw your own conclusions...

No carbon or steel in the top 15 at Herne Hill. Draw your own conclusions...

Lies!!
I was 3rd over all last year on a 2nd hand steel frame & fork, and pretty sure I'm in top 15 this year on another steel. I'd say fit is the most important thing, then wheels.

y-s - your bikes are v svelte, and are much appreciated!

but yeah, took me a couple of years (and three frames) to find the perfect fit, and now I'm pretty happy. Though I have a bit of wheel envy at the moment.

No carbon or steel in the top 15 at Herne Hill. Draw your own conclusions...

My conclusion is the top 15 would still pretty much be the same if they all rode carbon ;)

So I agree with Yasu, fit and geometry foremost, then contact points (pedals, shoes, tyres/tubs, wheels) providing you have a reasonably stiff frame, though that's not as hugely important for mass start events as it is with sprints.

My carbon frame made me faster than I was on my alloy frame, but then the alloy frame wasn't exactly the best or newest around. I think there's very little between carbon and good quality alu.

No carbon or steel in the top 15 at Herne Hill.

I didn't actually check, as you can tell :)
But I knew Yasu's bike was steel. Didn't realise no cardboard bikes though, that's quite interesting.

Because people with plastic bikes are too busy to turn up to every track league.

(too busy looking cool)

Lies!!
I was 3rd over all last year on a 2nd hand steel frame & fork, and pretty sure I'm in top 15 this year on another steel. I'd say fit is the most important thing, then wheels.

7th - sorry didn't realise the new one was steal!

http://www.hernehillvelodrome.com/whats-on/trackleague/track-league-overall-league-table-senior

If you extend it to the top 20 that will include another steal, and a carbon frame. ooOOOoo

Thanks you Stelle...all very good advice and you are spot on re Planet-X..am sure a great frame, but...
I have been scanning websites (British Cycling, Bikeradar, ebay, etc) and have not been able to find anything that gets me going so might have to go for new...in which case does the Look 464 make sense plus Campy Record Pista chain set, Elipse wheels? or Campy Pista wheels? Or the Koga frame? Or continue to look for a second hand carbon frame...Almost bought a Dolan Df3 second hand but direct from Dolan but was too large...
Cheers
'Wheels

Ross Edgar rode a traditional steel frame at last years good friday, and did 11.3s 200m. He'd probably have gone a few 1/10 of a second faster if were he on GB super bike, but that's how much difference frame & fork makes.

Point taken...need something that is going to inspire you though! Did you notice who made his frame and what other bits did he have on it? what wheels, etc?

Cheers

He was riding a keirin frame as he was off to Japan. Wheels were the usual comete/IO combo.

Only about 4ks worth.

Matt Crampton went 4/10ths faster on his carbon bike. 4/10ths of a second is a lot at their level.

So, I should pick any frame that will motivate me to look at (recommendation for an iconic track frame pse?) make sure it fits welll and invest in best wheels...if not the IO set, what would you recommend?

'Wheels

How long have you been (track) racing and what are your aims for the next two years?

The Koga is a lovely frameset as I, and many others on here can vouch.
If you can afford it then buy it. Looks cool too :)

Have been training at Reading but not raced - have been focusing on TT and road to date. My son races the regional Omnium series (Brighton/Portsmouth etc) and I am inspired to start racing on track too. I don't want to start with bike that going to upgrade quickly - would prefer to make long term investment...aims are to get into general track racing and see where it goes...I am a masters athlete. I ride Campy on my TT and road bike so thought Campy Record Pista good chain set to go for...wheels, open to suggestions, bars...cinelli track or maybe Eastons?

The Koga is a lovely frameset as I, and many others on here can vouch.
If you can afford it then buy it. Looks cool too :)

Have been training at Reading but not raced - have been focusing on TT and road to date. My son races the regional Omnium series (Brighton/Portsmouth etc) and I am inspired to start racing on track too. I don't want to start with bike that going to upgrade quickly - would prefer to make long term investment...aims are to get into general track racing and see where it goes...I am a masters athlete. I ride Campy on my TT and road bike so thought Campy Record Pista good chain set to go for...wheels, open to suggestions, bars...cinelli track or maybe Eastons?

What are you using at the moment?

Cervelo T1

Or the Look

My conclusion is the top 15 would still pretty much be the same if they all rode carbon ;)

So I agree with Yasu, fit and geometry foremost, then contact points (pedals, shoes, tyres/tubs, wheels) providing you have a reasonably stiff frame, though that's not as hugely important for mass start events as it is with sprints.

My carbon frame made me faster than I was on my alloy frame, but then the alloy frame wasn't exactly the best or newest around. I think there's very little between carbon and good quality alu.

+1million. I got second overall (albeit in the B's) in my local track league last year on a 50 year old steel frame with airlite hub/fiamme rim wheels. Bought a Cinelli Vigorelli this week and I'm not expecting a significant difference in my performance.

Altering your training will make a bigger difference, especially if you come from a TT background

So that must make me the the one with the highest points (so far) on carbon

There should be prize at the end of the year for the highest points of each frame material type then?

So that must make me the fastest (so far) on carbon.

There should be prize at the end of the year for the fastest of each frame material type then?

Fastest? by 200 times?

Or most consistent turner-up/finishers?

Overall in the league on carbon (17th)