Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Archetypes...

^What he said, A23, A719 etc. All the stuff which had been suggested a hundred times before in this thread.

Don't worry about the aesthetic of 23C tyres on wide rims, your tyres will wear out and you can replace them with full-sized ones.

So, I've built a few wheels now and I can't seem to get spoke tensions even. I'm doing this by ear so far.

I usually get the wheel tight and true, even the tensions and gradually tension the wheel to the max tension I want. I then check the tension is even before finally truing.

Problem is, I true to within less than a mm but the tensions arn't even anymore. Is this normal? I thought ideally I should be trying to balance tension?

I hate going back to it to even out the tension once it's so perfect!

How far out is your tension? If you're doing it by ear, an octave difference in plucked tone is a 4:1 tension ratio, so a semi-tone is about 12% difference in tension*. If the rim is circular before you start, you should easily be able to get every spoke in a symmetrical wheel within a quarter tone. If your wheels are circular but the tension is more unbalanced than that, either the rim wasn't circular to start with or, more likely, you're letting some spokes do more than their fair share of pulling and the rim stiffness is holding the wheel circular in spite of, rather than thanks to, the spoke tension.

*mathematicians please check, I think this is right.

Velocity A23 has the same ERD (nearly) but if you are changing spokes then the H plus son archetype is a very good rim. DT Swiss RR440 is a good shallow rim alternative these day narower than the archetype though.

Ambrosio excellight is a good rim if you want shallow and narrow and it is stiffer than an open pro. the DT Swiss RR465 if you can find any is no longer in production but again a similar rim.

You don't like the athestics of 23mm tyres on wide rims why, you want tyres to balloon. You get better ride comfort and handling. If you want tyres to balloon by a wider tyre. Also picking a rim because of the tyres you currently have is kind of ludicrous as the rim will outlast the tyre several time over.

#megarep @thecycleclinic @mdcc_tester

Anyone found Archetypes seem to dump a lot of metal into the brake pads? Had to pick plenty of disturbingly large chunks out most evenings this week, wheels are less than a month old and haven't been used for anything but light road commuting...

Anyone found Archetypes seem to dump a lot of metal oxide into the brake pads?

Common problem with a lot of rims which are don't have the anodising machined off the brake tracks. Once there is one chip of alumina embedded in the pad, it become a cutting tool for the rest of the rim. If you want to keep grey or black rims looking good, you have to start with new pads and keep everything scrupulously clean; that precludes commuting, obviously.

Thanks, I've given the rims a good clean and swapped in another new set of pads, going to keep a much closer eye on it now, then get annoyed with the amount of effort and buy a disc frameset at the end of the month... that'll teach me for trying to buy nice things...

You were just badly advised. I have built several hundred Archetype rims. The black wears out in 100-300 miles typically. I have never seen an Archetype that stays black if you brake on.

Other anodised rim tracks last longer: my Nemesis grey track lasted around 1000 miles of dry only use

Badly advised? To be clear - I'm not expecting the brake tracks to stay black, the anodising has already worn off. I was concerned by the chunks of alumina getting stuck in the pads (both the size and frequency at which it was occurring) and if possibly, how to reduce it.

Yeah I think I'm gonna give the A23 OC rim a go then just ride my current tyres for the meantime and get some 25s at a later date.

I would go for Archetypes but as I'm running rim brakes I'd rather the MSW on the A23s - again just for aesthetic purposes.

There are tewo schools of though... those who splash in expensive hyper soft pads like Swisstop yellow or green and those that predicate rim cleanliness and pad-checks. I belong to the latter.
I have not had reports of unusual amount of aluminium in the pads to be honest and the rims seem to wear at a normal rate. 5-6,000 miles if you ride them in all weathers and ignore them and double that if you are a dry weather rider and/or keep them very clean.

Of course now someone with Rigida Taurus rims will come out saying that he went twice around the world with the same set, which is of course entirely possible :-)

Actually my Rigida Sputniks are terrible for gouged material from the brake tracks.

I think to keep the pads free of metal I'd have to do surgery weekly.

What no on seems to be saying (the elephant in the room, as it were):

Breaks are death

That's not an elephant, it's @hippy.

Disc brakes ftw. I don't get flakes of steel from my rotors embedded in my pads.

I don't get chunks of carbon in my pads either. and the side walls seem to stay black too.

Thanks tester — that's really useful info. I'll just have to make sure my ears are well calibrated! A few were quite a bit out. I balanced them all again and was careful to check the tension of the spokes near any wobbles before making any adjustments. It all sounds within a semitone at least now.

Now to try it with a 3x...

I'm looking for durable, disc specific rims. Black only.

I'll be running nothing smaller than 28c tyres. Primary use will be 100mi/week London commuting but also the occasional spot of touring and maybe even some single track with some beefier tyres.

I have Novatec D041SB/D042SB 32H disc hubs FWIW.

Wheel builders of LFGSS, any recommendations?

Cheap as fuck on cnc - I use it on a bombproof brakeless fix wheelset

I must say I do find that expression 'bombproof' a little disconcerting. No offence meant to you in particular Thuekr, lots of people use the expression. Just seems a little ... weird ...

@dom I've got some new nmsw blackout a23's? wide for 28c + touring, look the part, £65 posted if you want?

[Mavic Disc 319] Cheap as fuck on cnc - I use it on a bombproof brakeless fix wheelset

@thuekr thanks but CRC don't have them in 32h :(

I've got some new nmsw blackout a23's? wide for 28c + touring, look the part, £65 posted if you want?

@sirbikealot thanks; I'll certainly keep that offer in mind but I was hoping to take advantage of some disc specific rims (even the nmsw a23 have a brake surface, right?).

@edscoble has recommended the Pacenti CL25 which I can pick up for £80 a pair but I wondered if there were any cheaper options.

DT Swiss X470 £36 each http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/dt-swiss-x-470-29er-disc-rim/rp-prod34445