LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)

We have a band of volunteer lawyers currently looking into things, but so far they've roughly concluded along the same lines of myself... that there are two things to look at, the risk level and the type of service.

The type of service is captured in https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf?v=387711 and forums appear to be multi-risk according to the definition on page 78 of that document... mostly based on the risk involved, i.e. can you conclusively say that file uploads do not contain harmful or illegal content? if you say yes, does this include attachments on a DM? hence we start triggering some of the criteria... similar for stalking / harassment, threats and abuse... which is also extended to be "harmful but legal".

Forums appear to be a "multi-risk service".

The other doc is this one https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/risk-assessment-guidance-and-risk-profiles.pdf?v=388231 and on first read we thought "Low risk", but then it starts saying you have to look at the risk profiles... and those too include things (page 64) stating that "discussions forums and chat room" are "We would normally expect such services to be assessed as at least medium risk" and we don't have strong reasons to assess elsewise.

The high level reads not so bad... but once you (like we have) start cross-comparing their own words, it becomes much harder to not conclude we're a Medium risk + Multi-risk service... and that's where the scanning of DMs, scanning of attachments, potential age verification and other implications start arising.

We're still investigating and awaiting tools, and considering options... but the default announcement of closure stands as it gives the greatest possible notice of the presently most likely outcome.

I do hope we don't have to, and likewise that you don't have to close the forums either.

Hopefully UK forums do not shut down, @user159461 Have you guys try to get in direct contact with Ofcom and the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Peter Kyle to explain the negative affect the law is having on small sites?

You could also get in contact with news sites like The Telegraph and The Register aswell as getting in contact with UK internet rights groups like the open rights group, big brother watch and index on censorship.

Out of interest, would the risk assessment change at all if you didn't allow uploads/attachments?

https://buttondown.com/indie-and-community-web-compliance-/archive/1-quick-update-and-request-for-info/

This has helpful info specifically for UK based small websites / forums, from ppl with similar values ("a healthy and pluralistic www"), with links to a quick guide from ofcom and a 3-day conference ofcom is organising 3-5 Feb.

Out of interest, would the risk assessment change at all if you didn't allow uploads/attachments?

Not enough.

But the things that create issues and the most obvious actions:

• Prevent all File Uploads, force the use of ImgUr or another 3rd Party - mitigates exchange of potentially harmful images, videos, etc via the forum
  
• Prevent all Direct Messages, encourage the use of WhatsApp / Signal, etc - mitigates the risk of stalking, harassment, hate, fraud, etc via the forum
  
• Close all the Classifieds, encourage eBay - mitigates the risk of fraud, stolen goods, etc via the forum
  
• Add age verification - mitigates the grooming of children
  
  

We'd still have the risk of vulnerable individuals experiencing harm, and honestly that's just society at large.

And the forum would now be a very very different beast, a public only, text only message board... with age verification.

This is where any of these steps start hitting the lines of what I don't wish to do, I don't wish to intentionally cripple the site. I find that unacceptable.

grooming of children

Who's gonna do their hair after this ofcom shite?
Won't someone THINK OF THE GROTTY LITTLE SCUMBAGS!?!?!

And the forum would now be a very very different beast, a public only, text only message board... with age verification.

Aswell as the fact that Age verification like IDs and Facial recognition is a privacy and legal nightmare. It's on very very shaky legal grounds.

Also you would also have to deal with the ICO (Information Commissioner's Office) and they have there own set of rules...

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/childrens-information/childrens-code-guidance-and-resources/how-to-use-our-guidance-for-standard-one-best-interests-of-the-child/best-interests-framework/age-assurance/

text only

Text only seems like a non-starter. No photos of bikes? No memes?

Add age verification

I currently log in using my Googlemail account. It looks like you can verify your age by uploading valid ID to Google. I assume you can then restrict accounts under a certain age? Would this then pass responsibility on to them?

It seems unworkable that any sites that allow users to upload files which are displayed to other users would need age verification. Twitter/Facebook/Instagram/Youtube/Reddit/whatever all need to confirm your ID? Even eBay? Within 9 weeks?

Surely not?

It is unworkable and the last attempt at this was delayed and them scapped because it was a privacy and legal nightmare.

But I do want to say the age verification stuff does not come in to force for most sites until around July (that if its not delayed) but adult sites may have to enforce it starting around the 17th of January. The whole thing is a mess.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/illegal-and-harmful-content/important-dates-for-online-safety-compliance/

Not really.

I run this platform...so I would need to age verify everyone using this platform.

I'm sure there's some way to get agreements in place that a Google profile with some specific OAuth scope set to indicate age verification is done would suffice.

But... doesn't that feel unsatisfying to you? Would I need to drive every user to have a Google account? Now access to this site is controlled by a third party and we're dependant on them.

The work arounds and technical steps to mitigate the identified risks... do seem to kill the essence of these types of websites.

No way I'm gonna get a google a/c - am super grateful to @Velocio for keeping this such a wonderful oasis from the harsh world that it's become out there, I wouldn't be here otherwise.

I came here for the bike pron, stayed for the anti

I don't want to send my ID to Google to use a bike forum.

Fucking alcohol websites have some stupid age "verify" requirement. I don't see them being hassled to request government id.

I don't mind a bit of red tape if it genuinely protects children. But will it?

Thing is the OSA has so much red tape that its likely to have a huge negative affect on the UK tech economy at a time when the UK economy is not doing well and Labour has a 16% approval rating.

The Catholic Church still exists so it doesn't seem to me that any government is actually that concerned with children's welfare.

Yes, this thread has illustrated that point very well. It's a shame they can't devise some red tape which doesn't do undue harm to the clean tech industry.

What's the situation in the EU? I once had to let a bookshop in italy make a photocopy of my ID so I could use their public wifi. Apparently this was because jihadis might get bomb recipes off the internet.

And that's what we'll be heading for to enforce the social media ban for under 16s in Oz no doubt

The Catholic Church still exists so it doesn't seem to me that any government is actually that concerned with children's welfare.

This is so spot on I momentarily thought about bringing back rep.

#margaretthatcherspenis

ah yes, this is why I didn't

I blame @cliveo

Just caught up with this news. I’ve been on a writing deadline so shut the rest of the world out.

It stinks .@Velocio thank you for everything xxx
This forum helped my recovery. I joined when I was still using a walking stick. haven’t used one now for 11 years.

Made lots of friends here and a few frenemies.

We really are living in a dystopian society.