Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Here's one reason: food.

What foods do we import from Europe?

The UK imports many common food products from European countries:

Fruit and vegetables

Around 90 percent of the UK’s salad leaves in autumn and winter are produced in south-east Spain.

Britain also imports more than £400million of fresh tomatoes each year, mostly from the Netherlands.

Peppers and cucumbers also arrive in Dover from continental Europe.

And some exotic citrus fruits, such as lemons, can be bought in UK supermarkets thanks to growers in Europe.

Frozen potatoes, such as chips, are 99 percent imported from the EU, from the Netherlands and Belgium.

Dairy products

A host of popular cheeses, including mozzarella, brie, feta and halloumi come from countries in Europe.

In 2016, 96,449 tonnes of cheddar was imported into the UK, with 91,866 of that originating in Europe.

Meat

Denmark is the top exporter of bacon and ham to the UK, and the Netherlands, Germany and Italy also import a lot of pork products.

Meat is also largely exported from the UK, especially British lamb with 98 percent being imported to EU countries overseas.

Quick edit: Quick google says 11.53% of NZ food is imported. 50%ish of UK food is. NZ food is probably not coming in on (tens of?) thousands of lories each day being driven by real people who continue on their way to warehouses all across the country.

I’m referring to movement of peoples rather than good.

Human to human transmission of the virus high. Chedder to chedder transmission quite low.

Chedder to chedder transmission quite low.

Probably even lower due to Brexit.

How does (dirty foreign) cheddar get into the country?

How does (dirty foreign) cheddar get into the country?

They don't even call it cheddar in forrin. Had some Dutch cheddar today and it said Gouda on the packet.

Let me put it another way. Over 10k lorries come across via Dover alone every day. That's over 10k people driving those lorries. We can close the borders, but that also means stopping all those lorries and the things they carry from coming in.

The question is what percentage of people crossing UK boarders are doing so in the name of goods distribution, compared to business/pleasure.

I don't know what the split is, but I'd guess at less than 10%. Also, lorry drivers are likely spending most of their time in their cabs, rather than attending gatherings / getting on public transport.

We could have closed borders while allowing freight distribution. Even better if that goes hand in hand with rapid testing now.

ha!

The question is what percentage of people crossing UK boarders are doing so in the name of goods distribution, compared to business/pleasure.

No it isn't. The point made by Ed and Thrasher was we should close the borders like they did in NZ. I'm pointing out why that's a bit more difficult here.

I don't know what the split is, but I'd guess at less than 10%.

I'll take that bet! Tenner?

We could have closed borders while allowing freight distribution.

How?

No it isn't. The point made by Ed and Thrasher was we should close the
borders like they did in NZ. I'm pointing out why that's a bit more
difficult here.

Agree we can't close it like NZ/Aus have, but we could have worked hard to try minimise roll on roll off freight, and move to a system where lorry loads are unaccompanied on ferrys. Would have been difficult no doubt, but if we weren't wasting our time doing Brexit, I'm sure something could have been achieved.

I'll take that bet! Tenner?

Shall we argue on whether the passenger volumes are pre or during the pandemic? :)

How?

I dunno - passing a law or something - not beyond the will of a sovereign state! What I mean is that the only people that would be allowed to enter the UK would be those driving lorries for freight distribution. You'd then the hotel quarantine fun for everyone else.

I should note that the Australia approach to hotel quarantine was pretty harsh if you were trying to get back to Aus. They had really strict limits on daily passengers meaning many Aussies could not get home for months. This would have been very controversial to introduce here. Not saying that means we shouldn't have - just that such an approach, while allowing lorry drivers in, would have been very difficult politically.

"Closing the borders" is a bit too literal and binary.

NZ and Aus haven't completely closed their borders, you just have to fulfill certain criteria to be allowed in and also to put up with testing and an enforced isolation upon arrival.

Freight import/export is certainly a problem for the UK, but there are ways to limit the people coming and going. Maybe freight is a necessity. But allowing one thing doesn't mean that everyone is therefore free to come and go as they please, nor does the freight have to be (un-)managed in the same way it is now.

If someone says "close the borders" to me, I doubt they mean a complete and utter closure, since no country has really done that.

Shall we argue on whether the passenger volumes are pre or during the pandemic? :)

Ha, no! Pandemic levels.

I dunno - passing a law or something - not beyond the will of a sovereign state!

I meant more the logistics. I think it's a huge ask. It works in NZ because it's always been done like that. To shift now, and at levels which I assume are much higher than what is shipped in NZ, would be pretty tough I suspect.

If someone says "close the borders" to me, I doubt they mean a complete and utter closure, since no country has really done that.

When someone says close the borders and then says "like NZ!" you can assume they mean they want something like NZ. Which wouldn't work here.

The point made by Ed and Thrasher was we should close the borders like they did in NZ.

The Isle of Man seemed to managed well.

Edit; just to clarify, closed border not necessarily in the sense of no one in or out, but with quarantine in hotel and such like other countries.

Think aldernay is winning on that scale.

I think the key point is that we are an island - a very connected island, but an island none the less.

Being an island undoubtedly has benefits when it comes to controlling covid, but we have not realised any of these benefits as part of our plan to mitigate this disease, which seems an oversight.

One thing that is ignored in this debate is that, for closing the borders to work, you need to have lower rates of community transmission than the areas people are coming in from. Generally, we've failed at that too, so closing the borders will not make a huge difference overall while you have widespread community transmission. It would prevent importing mutations though.

One thing that is ignored in this debate is that, for closing the borders to work, you need to have lower rates of community transmission than the areas people are coming in from. Generally, we've failed at that too, so closing the borders will not make a huge difference overall while you have widespread community transmission. It would prevent importing mutations though.

Good point.

Also worth noting that, while we are not part of the mainland, we do share an open border with the EU via the NI/RoI.

I can imagine a situation where if the UK were to go for NZ style restricted borders/quarantine then Ireland might decide to join in.

Or we could just have a border down the Irish Sea and pretend there isn't one.

On the closed borders front - just saw this on the Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/02/government-criticised-for-letting-rita-ora-into-australia-ahead-of-40000-stranded-overseas

Still 40,000 Aussies queuing to get into their own country. Somehow they are allowing a tennis tournament and Rita Ora though.

Uh oh

Closing the borders" is a bit too literal and binary.

Welcome to my world, we've been like this since March. It's technically possible but realistically incredibly difficult... And that's why I just came home from a bar, having been out with no restrictions (other than political, civil, etc)...

Quite a last 12 months.

Bet the film company are over the moon.

The narrative structure might be tricky

Do you guys think I could nip to France, stay a few days then come back without having to quarantine, if I test negative for covid?

Will I test negative, if I had covid at christmas?