Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

This morning's news seems to report that health officials here are going to recommend the opposite (that the public shouldn't wear medical grade masks and that scarves will do). I imagine this is as much to do with preserving what little PPE supplies there are...

Jet dryers can't melt coronavirus

Not sure how you got to this statement.

The study is the dispersal of microbes around a room when drying hands. Blasting air around comes off worse.

I wonder if it was commissioned to sell paper towels.

I'm mainly concerned with the compulsion aspect. Assuming that masks (as PPE, the lowest form of health and safety provision) make sense in some contexts (perhaps for medical personnel), if you make them compulsory you'll get people relying on them in contexts in which completely different measures are called for.

The whole farrago about PPE has served to obscure the Government's total failure to act effectively and in timely fashion. When you've gone down the hierarchy of measures so far that PPE is the only set of measures left, you've failed.

The FT claims that there may have been around 40,000 deaths in the UK that are COVID-19-related so far:

Coronavirus-related deaths in the UK may be as high as 41,000, according to a Financial Times analysis of the latest data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS). Their findings include deaths that occurred outside hospitals updated to reflect recent mortality trends.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/apr/23/coronavirus-live-news-us-states-start-to-reopen-as-detained-wuhan-journalist-reappears?page=with:block-5ea0c0828f084784dca5837c#block-5ea0c0828f084784dca5837c

You only need to wear something that covers your mouth and nose (a buff will do) and only in ÖPNV and shops. It's compulsory yes, but shouldn't influence PPE supplies at all.

Once again this government starts on the gaslighting. Trying to sell the idea that 100,000 tests per week was referring to capacity, not to actual testing. Fuck. Them. All.

Oh, I'm not worried about PPE supplies. I'm just worried about people relying on it too much and it having the opposite effect of what's intended, as above.

Ive started wearing an anti viral buff when in shops, there’s definitely evidence they work and anything to help protect the people that work there has got to be a good thing.

It's fucking mad isn't, we could do 100,000 tests, but we can't, be bothered ?

You only need to wear something that covers your mouth and nose (a buff will do) and only in ÖPNV and shops. It's compulsory yes, but shouldn't influence PPE supplies at all.

This.
And there is some slight evidence, T Greenhalgh
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435

to suggest this is workable and doable.

We have it here too, to be worn in any circumstances where you can't reasonably leave 2m between you and someone else. Companies get 5 per person, homes get 5 per person. In practice I only need to wear it in the shops. The rule is a covering that covers up your nose and mouth so a scarf or buff is acceptable too.

The official line is that it reduces the nasty stuff you're putting out, not that it prevents you from getting it from other people and that you owe it to people around you to avoid infecting them. Sure it's a bit annoying but I have a buff I throw in my pocket if I go for a ride in case I need to stop and a couple of masks in the car for when I go to the shops. Wearing it isn't fun but I'm not wearing it for long.

That's in fact a problem, people here have no clue how to handle facemasks and stuff, getting them on and off all the time (touching their faces) etc...
There seems to be a lack of info on how to use ppe and that will have a negative impact.
How does that work in other countries that have compulsory PPE laws, are people clued up about how to use it?

In our envelopes we got guidelines for it all but having seen people out and about I'd guess 30-40% of people either didn't read it or didn't care what it said after reading it.

Here's the advice:
https://coronavirus.gouvernement.lu/fr/sante-au-travail.html

That's also the argument advanced by Frank Ulrich Montgomery, apparently the 'Chairperson of Council' of the World Medical Association (called its 'president' in Germany, which may be a confusion with "Vorsitzender"), who criticises compulsion:

https://www.presseportal.de/pm/30621/4578176

He's also been critical of Söder:

https://www.merkur.de/politik/coronavirus-bayern-soeder-aerztepraesident-montgomery-kritik-aktuelle-zahlen-karte-statistik-politik-krise-13646323.html

They can't weasel out of it too easily - It's still on the Gov website as a press release confirming it would be 100,000 carried out. Not gonna stop the twats from trying though.

At the time, that included antigen tests, but as none of these work yet, its going to have to be tests on those currently with symptoms. No chance by the looks of things.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/health-secretary-sets-out-plan-to-carry-out-100000-coronavirus-tests-a-day

The picture I get it is that most of the testing is done directly via interaction with the NHS - i.e. those admitted to hospitals or people who work in hospitals / care environment. This way just does not seem generate enough tests, as the "capacity" sits unused.

To hit 100,000 a day, I imagine they are going to have to start asking anyone with symptoms to get in their car and drive to one of these testing facilities. Is that what they are doing in other countries?

Here in Leipzig (Sachsen had already mandated masks in retail and public transport) that's exactly the case, so many improperly worn and handled masks. People just sliding them over their chin as soon as they leave a store, supermarkt workers only covering their mouth but not their nose, the queues in Dresden for the government-provided masks, most likely no or inadequate disinfection after wearing, et cetera.

It's an absolute shit show, even more so because people have stopped keeping their distance in stores, from what I can see through the windows of trams in public transport people are trying their best, but that probably won't last long either.

Luxembourg has two main ways to get tested:

1, Your GP sends you to get tested. Consultations can also be by video
2, There are some walk in centres which they ask are only used if you're really sick not just to be tested

Obviously if you call for medical help and they send an ambulance you're tested too.

Yes, the aspect of not wearing them properly is the exact parallel of cycle h*lm*ts. Anyway, compulsion is nonsense and should be rescinded pronto.

Jet dryers can't melt coronavirus

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article­s/paper-towels-hand-dryers

I've ordered some elastic band and thin fabric so I can make some comfortable masks I can wash easily, don't think it'll be rescinded here anytime soon. Sachsen has been all too keen on ridiculous measures, being one of only two states with a real lockdown. (The effectiveness of which was debatable too, the country-wide distancing rules were completely ignored by those who did go out.)

anti viral buff

A What?!

What @ChainBreaker said

I'd agree with your analysis and add that it was a small scale survey too.

To be honest, people should probably be worrying less about the aerosol effect of hand dryers and more about the aerosol effect of flushing a toilet.

aerosol effect of flushing a toilet.

Is so gross and im surprised that more people dont recognise this... As a habit, i always close the lid before flushing to reduce aerosol.

CLOSE THE LID YOU DIRTY BASTARDS

Not sure how you got to this statement.

He made a funny...

Not sure why ppl are taking you so seriously Pete. YOU ARE THE ANTICHRIST!

CLOSE THE LID YOU DIRTY BASTARDS

If there’s one positive that could come out of all this...

I am in favour of homemade masks.
An article in the Economist (can't be fucked to find the link right now) referred to a study claiming that a layer of t-shirt fabric in front of your face reduces the amount of particles you expel into the air by 50%. Lifted to a societal level this number obviously needs be revisioned downwards by factors such as not everyone bothering to wear them, people wearing them improperly etc..
But let's say we end up with and estimate suggesting that widespread use of homemade fabric masks will reduce the infection rate between strangers by ca 10%, surely that makes it worthwhile as we ride out the crisis? We're cyclists. We love a bit of marginal gains don't we?