EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Haha true. Though the Dutch football team is liked by all sides :)

I am on holiday in Germany and I was asked by a pharmacist what I thought about Brexit. I had to explain I am deeply upset, embarrassed and ashamed of the result and the attitudes displayed by those who want out. He was expressing disappointment too. His view is that as part of the EU it is a matter of give and take, we help nations when they need it but collectively benefit from our participation.

What this has made me aware of is how downhearted and powerless I feel over our future. In my life I have rarely voted as I consider it farcical that we are expected to chose one person(MP)/party to represent all our views and are meant to trust them with this for four years. I actually voted in the last general election, Brexit and a by election and did not feel the satisfaction of having contributed to the greater good as I watched the aresoles take over and run the show.

It appears there is no real opposition and I want to know what can be done to attempt to influence the abominable situation. It is easy to whinge on here in our little echo chamber. What action can we make to try to take, what stand can we make to express that we don't want the confused and deceived "will of the people" to be enacted?

I don't want to look back in years to come and realise all I did to try and stop this gradual descent into bigotry and descrimination was to post on the fixie skidder forum. But currently have no clue as to what to do.

My response to the situation in general has been to get more involved with politics. Joined the lib dem party and have been out delivering leaflets and such like. Arguing your point on forums only does so much and you're usually preaching to the choir or arguing against those with an entrenched position, or trolls. Still worth having the discussions but I suspect trying to nudge the voting public in the right direction is the more practical endeavour.

I'm going to just leave this here
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu

i liked the bit where she moans about sweeping generalisations yet her entire opening gambit is a sweeping generalisation. and she's from fucking sheffield!

some top guardianing, right thur.

from a twitter chum:

Only someone who moved to London as an adult wouldn't recognise the London leave voters as people they grew up next door to.

What action can we make to try to take, what stand can we make to express that we don't want the confused and deceived "will of the people" to be enacted?

Get angry
Write to your MP
Write again
Go to their surgery
Write again
Stay angry

Point out:
That the referendum was gerrymandered and isn't representative, was based on lies by the leavers, that brexit is retrograde and dangerous, that the UK has been hijacked by extreme radical right wingers.

Read the New European for further instructions...

1 Attachment

^ scobleurone?

I have written to my MP a couple of times. I don't want to just be angry, I'd rather find a positive way to address the issue.

shit on a picture of boris johnson.

Write to the Lords as well, article50 amendments are with them ATM.

I need to do that, did write to my mp he's SDLP and voted against article50.

I know the feeling. I have always voted, but I'm angry and disappointed it's going this way.

As an EU national I'm also a bargaining chip for the UK. Ah well, nothing is personal eh? ;)

Yay (sarcastically), Brexit is working. The decline of EU people working in the UK has started. Someone phone up the Daily Mail, The Express, Paul Nuttall, Jacob Rees-Mogg's carer, Michael Gove, et al

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/you-aren-t-allowed-to-know-who-paid-for-key-leave-campaign-adverts

to add insult to injury it's possible some money for the leave campaigns was routed via NI as we don't have strict political donor rules (...yet).

Incredibly long post by Dom Cummings on why he thinks the referendum went the way it did.

dominiccummings.wordpress.com/20­17/01/09/on-the-referendum-21-branching-­histories-of-the-2016-referendum-and-the­-frogs-before-the-storm-2/

I've just finished this and also the first part of a long blog post on his Whitehall experiences: https://dominiccummings.wordpress.com/2014/10/30/the-hollow-men-ii-some-reflections-on-westminster-and-whitehall-dysfunction/

I've found both incredibly interesting and thought provoking. In particular his statements on behavior and focused results based action.

@dancing james - to bring it round to your question(s), I don't know. But the best starting point would be to set clear objectives and look at where previous approaches have failed/succeed. For example I think the objectives of fighting bigotry and preventing Brexit are separate and require different solutions.

I'd also like to pick up on the phrasing of;

the confused and deceived "will of the people" to be enacted?

this is an idea that is often aired (me inc.). I wonder if this isn't just our own rationalisation of how other people could come to a different view than ours, formed by our bias. It also smacks of the sort of condensation so many are apparently sick of.

How have we come to the view that people were either confused or deceived?

Perhaps it's thinking of leave voters in these terms which makes us remainers unable to engage them properly.

I bloody hate condensation

Don't be so wet.

drip.

Exactly the sort of typical elitest comment I'd expect from the metropolitana.

Why are you bringing pizza into it?

It's one of his sponsors

It's quite easy to come to the view people were bullshitted. Leave campaign leaflet pack of fucking lies. Turkey. Lie. 350 million bus. Bullshit. Campaigns are not held to any standards, they were in no position to suggest this was an official promise but as it's a suggestion if people did fall for it "it was a suggestion"

But then after that there's an issue:
1 - Not all leavers bought the bull (lexit didn't go with official leave, neither did flexit)
2 - People only admit they accepted a lie if you give them a chance
3 - People disagree over definitions. Platitudes like "the EU is corrupt / undemocratic" quite frankly make me eyeroll though depending on the definition of said terms they are not untrue. But if person A uses definition A and B definition B...
4 - Group thinking, encouraged by a all or nothing vote referendum
5 - Nobody likes to admit they were wrong. I was wrong on EU and fishing, it does seem a bad policy.

I'd hope though that there is common ground to be found. But on what... Article 50 court case? Yeah some leavers thought it was good. But then what, are they worried about the economy or not...So many things were promised, and there are so many motivations it's a long conversation with anyone if you want to make it fair.

On that note this is quite a funny tweet (if you click through the various Farage claims)

https://twitter.com/lolwarlol/status/831980176770752516

Sadly, an all too common story.

On top of that some people think Farage is still LAD!!! even though he barely attended those fishing meetings and is under investigation for abuse of EU money :):):)

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/15093911.PICTURES__Flag_waving_EU_supporter_protests_on_mini_roundabout/ anyways, this is lovely.

It's not easy to stand there on your own risking abuse, and he's English doing in support of the EU nationals here like me, so kudos.

http://www.whybrexitisgreat.co.uk/