EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

The far-right is never ok.

I find it unfortunate that so many very old friends of mine are so painfully narrow-minded. Last week I was accused of being part of the "tofu-munching, non-patriotic, tree-hugging great unwashed looney left". I've even been asked if I'm converting to Islam.

My political persuasion isn't anything of the sort - I'm just not right wing in any way of the sort. However left of centre I may be, I'm not remotely right wing and the views of these so-called patriots are unfounded and short-sighted.

If you want to pick that one point and make an issue of it, so be it.

Thought the article gave an interesting perspective on how the far right/nationalist parties are making gains, and to a certain extent consolidating those gains as well. Not just in relation to the UK and UKIP, but also to some of the countries we think of as being much more socialist than we are.

Local election turnout is usually around 35%. I'm expecting a small hike as this is a very well publicised event focussed on a single issue. However, I would surprised if it gets over 45%. The big motivational factors for that increase will be racism, nationalism, misinformation, fear and provincialist thinking. All things that typically favour the right.

It's definitely great to encourage people to actually bother voting but the biggest demographics in non-voters are the young and the liberal/left.

Yes - that was obviously my point.

Thought the article gave an interesting perspective on how the far right/nationalist parties are making gains, and to a certain extent consolidating those gains as well. Not just in relation to the UK and UKIP, but also to some of the countries we think of as being much more socialist than we are.

I don't see the UK lurching to the far-right. UKIP have 1 mp, and the Conservatives, which it would be pretty difficult to argue as being far-right, have a very slender majority.

In the rest of the EU, yes, nationalism is on the march again. And given how high unemployment is in the non-UK/Germanic areas of the EU, the next economic downturn, combined with the reduced need for workers due to the advance of AI/automated manufacturing and services, could lead to the far-right gaining a lot more control.

This is why I put far right/nationalist, there are a load more conservative mps and voters who fit into the nationalist viewpoint than they do far right, but there's a load of overlap and grey area in there.

I'm not sure how you believe that nationalism isn't on the rise here, when we're debating a referendum which would take us out of europe and into an unknown future because an older generation are raising the specter of immigration and a beholdness to foreign european powers...

I'm not sure how you believe that nationalism isn't on the rise here, when we're debating a referendum which would take us out of europe and into an unknown future because an older generation are raising the specter of immigration and a beholdness to foreign european powers...

How do you feel about Scottish nationalism? Do you think Scotland should be beholden to foreign English powers? Or do you think Scotland should be able to pursue the socialist policies of the overwhelmingly elected SNP?

Scottish nationalists make a big show of stating that their form of nationalism is a type of cosmopolitan nationalism (as ridiculous as that phrase may sound). One which includes the EU, and one which includes England in many ways (currency union, shared monarch).

What English nationalists have made a big show of is the problem of foreigners. Be it infringing on sovereignty or taking jobs, the issue is decidedly one in which England and the English must be independent from others.

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That's a distinctly different issue. To describe Westminster as "foreign" is completely erroneous. Unless, of course, you want to hear from a representative of the newly oppressed Kingdom of Savoy.

Scotland disagrees vehemently with how Westminster allocates money and benefit cuts. It's a more left and socialist voting place atm than England and Westminster hands out the cash so ultimately it has all the power.

I think it's on a larger ticket than just "You guys have squatted long enough now, we want our place back".

The bottom three or four deciles are probably all pensioners.

Scottish nationalism is a civic nationalism - it's about making the country better for everyone in it regardless of background, not by removing or excluding people that aren't indigenous.

And the SNP aren't really that socialists either. In broad terms, they're fairly central.

Ah yes fair point.

But the median wage in NI is 22K...so there must be a lot of working people here (and perhaps other UK areas too like North of England) under the 27K after taxes?

I don't see the UK lurching to the far-right. UKIP have 1 mp, and the Conservatives, which it would be pretty difficult to argue as being far-right, have a very slender majority.

It'd be a different story if we had any form of PR. UKIP got a 12.6% share of the vote in the last general election. But then having a PR system may change the way people vote...

Think it's talking about household earnings though.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/vote-leave-quietly-delete-its-fake-register-to-vote-page-after-being-exposed/

I'd imagine both sides are stooping this low, even more reason to abhor this ridiculous referendum.

Self defeating surely?

The Leave campaign has continually tried to harvest voter data so that they can target them with marketing efforts. Even if they just used the page as a proxy registration portal, they would have been able to capture that information. They wouldn't have cared about the political persuasion of the registering voters because they would have marketed to them either way.

My theory is this: if we leave then a lot of European immigrants, who are white, will leave the UK, and we'll need to attract immigrants from elsewhere to fill the void, who will be more than likely brown. This will reflect badly on Cameron as his voter base prefers white people to brown, so he has little choice but to ask we remain.

Or he could increase minimum wage, invest in education and force people back into work, but they - the Party - all pissed themselves laughing when somebody suggested doing that.

Correct but for one person they have to have 27K left after tax. So of course if you have two people one can earn say 20K and another 20K and you still make the earning as you have only one rent to pay.

And a lot of people just aren't at that level.

I'm guessing that if we leave, the next influx of brown people will be tanned twatish ex pats from Spain and other parts of the Med. We'll have to put up with a decade of every second sentence they utter starting with "When we were living in the Costa del Romford..."

Ha Ha!

But seriously, they're all retired so that won't address the labour shortage either.

With the impact of a major economic power leaving the EU, I can't imagine the Spanish property market is going to do anything other than gouge the fuck out of departing expats for their unsellable chintzy hommage to '80s design ethic. They'll have to come out of retirement if the family want to be able to afford to live in a one bed garage in Woolwich.

A great poster design from Trevor Jackson for the IN campaign.

Use / share / download here:
http://www.strongerin.co.uk/art#AbJXPZ3CA46sIkgW.97