EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

So basically anybody that didn't follow brexit news in detail (if you did, it was pretty clear this striking your own deals chat meant no customs union) would not have known?

Pretty insane that people tick a box not knowing anything and then doing it again...but that's humans and no doubt Mr oven ready deal knew it full well.

They really got done then. Hard to feel too sympathetic as the Tories also voted to keep the hostile environment for EU citizens that miss euss deadline in place.

But it's not ok to deceive like that.

But did the local Kent Con candidates knew? If yes they omitted important information, if not, the party misled them too.

That’s what I’m getting at.

It’s too easy to says those who vote Leave have it coming; they, like us, want what best for their country, being told this and that is why we never prosper and must vote to Leave.
The latest election in 2019 is also very clever; Get Brexit Done, can easily interpret as to stop it taking over our lives and move on, which appeal to the Remain voters, everyone is tried and iust want it over with (despite the fact this only result in the beginning of Brexit).

It’s just too easy to says it’s the voter fault.

Nobody voted for this thinking it wouldn’t hurt anybody. In fact for those who did so expecting there to be fewer immigrants, Muslims (somehow), and Syrian refugees, that was the point. If leave voting communities are finding that there are unforeseen personal consequences, I really don’t care.

If leave voting communities are finding that there are unforeseen personal consequences, I really don’t care.

You could argue that the referendum should never have taken place, as it's too complex an issue to hand over to the public, and far too easy to spin a leave narrative that oversimplifies the arguments.

People were misled (some people) and some.of them will be worse off for it, which isn't really their fault (in some cases).

Two more gems....

First the eel exporter:

https://twitter.com/nickreeves9876/status/1343606524569071621?s=19

And second Dutch Bike Bits shipping update

From: https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

Brexit

Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.

@fizzy.bleach It does suggest that there should have been some independent fact checking applied to both sides- that Leave lied and lied and lied is (now) obvious, but at the time any objection was characterised as Project Fear, and for e.g. the BBC didn’t dare point out what was plainly bollocks.

Combine that with people (even some apparently capable of tying their own shoelaces) who spouted such bilge as “we hold all the cards” and “they need us more than we need them” with apparent sincerity and it’s clear that the prospectus bought by the 52% was a combination of fantasy and mendacity.

People were misled (some people) and some.of them will be worse off for it, which isn't really their fault (in some cases).

I’ll go back to the first part of my last post - no one can reasonably claim that they voted for this thinking that it wouldn’t hurt anyone at all, they just didn’t expect it to be them.

A lot of people voted to remove rights from their children that they had enjoyed for their entire lives, which I find hard to process.

Yeah but you millennials have smartphones.

I’m gen X.

Okay boomer.

.

The leave EU campaign was dogwhistling central about Muslims.

(Turkey will join the EU! Muslims!!!)

Leave is linked with cons voting and anti immigrants sentiment much more strongly than remain.

Not buying the "I'm not racist" from a largish group of leave voters.

Of course, May Johnson Patel then continuing to condone the xenophobia rather than condemning it as anti British values is their choice.

I thought I was younger than you?

I agree but voters are also adults and actions have consequences.

It's hard to say how much is voters how much the media and how much the cons, but you do tick that box.

In the end it harms us all as lack of confidence in the political system and divisive rhetoric is not good for society.

But if you vote for it and you don't speak up at all, cha ...

People were misled (some people) and some.of them will be worse off for it, which isn't really their fault

Some of them were mislead sure, but there's an awful lot of people who are no smarter than me or better informed who voted for it. I didn't trust a single thing Farage et al said - why on earth did they? I find it bewildering.

Of all the people I know who voted leave (actually only five of them have admitted it, I'm sure there's more) one was a doctor (if there's one profession that should know not to trust a Tory govt, surely that's it?). Another was a politically informed (and I thought aligned) IT professional - particularly shocked by that one given he was working on a long term consultancy contract in France at the time.

I agree with @rodan - I think most Leave voters now need to shoulder significantly more responsibility than saying 'I was lied to by a bus'.

Fuck those that are now having to deal with the consequences of their actions - maybe they'll learn something from it.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK

I've been looking for a few bits and bobs over the last week or so and it seems that this is fast becoming the norm. I frequently use r2-bike.de and bike24.de. Currently, if you want a shipping quote from r2-bike you select your country from the drop-down menu; which currently lists every country in the world except the UK.
Also, bike24, currently every product on their site says 'this product is not shippable to the UK'.

Boom! We really are a fucking disaster! I've also been waiting for couriers to open up their services to Germany as I have to return something. Prior to yesterday, DHL and Parcelforce would not allow you to buy postage to anywhere in Europe. Yesterday, I was 'fortunate' enough to be able to pay £35 to ship a small parcel to Germany but only once I'd downloaded and completed 'SEVEN' documents and attached them to the outside of my parcel in a clear plastic wallet.....

You wish, grandad.

#millennial4lyf

those that are now having to deal with the consequences of their actions

As human nature or divine humour would have it, this group of people is usually the most vocal about other people assuming “personal responsibility”. En masse, they have yet to see the irony or the error of their ways.

Fuck those that are now having to deal with the consequences of their actions - maybe they'll learn something from it.

They won't. They will blame the EU for not giving us the deal we 'deserve'. I agree - fuck them, it was all foreseen.

some of them simply believe the rhetoric of Johnson and believe we got the deal we wanted, well played, good negotiating tactics, EU don't look so clever now etc.

How was this supposed to work? Surely the UK has no jurisdiction in those countries to collect taxes.

That relates to enforcement.

For eg US citizens in the UK have to pay US tax. Most of it is then set off via the double taxation treaty.

They will blame the EU for not giving us the deal we 'deserve'.

This is the beauty of their argument / view. You simply can't win.

Fwiw most the people I know who voted leave did so first for sovereignty and are in the main hard core free marketers looking to the longer term.

The only exception was a non-EU national who was bitter about all the BS and £s they and their spouse had to go through, vs EU nationals. They have a lot of issues.