EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

See also economists can't be trusted because they got some things wrong in the past, therefore I'll trust somebody with less knowledge than an economist.

I don't think that's what he said.

ok.

you mean the same Blair under whom the income gap widened to its highest level since thatcher? ok man, if you say so.

And the same Blair who stood for election in 1997 committed to five key pledges: to tackle crime, improve public services, maintain the top rate of tax and reduce youth unemployment. When assessed by C4 News in 2007 these pledges were found to have been largely achieved.

Polly Toynbee and David Walker came to the same conclusion in their book.

Blair also restored trust in politics in the wake of Tory sleaze. As measured by Ipsos MORI, trust in politicians rose from 15% in 1997 to 23% two years later.

There were substantial falls in pensioner and child poverty were largely driven by very significant additional spending on benefits and tax credits, and yes, inequality increased. But the Institute for Fiscal studies says that there is evidence to suggest that these reforms prevented a larger rise in inequality than actually occurred under Labour.

Oh and the minimum wage, low unemployment, well-funded public services, the Good Friday Agreement... do I need to go on?

But yeah, the tiresome assertion that New Labour and Blair were evil because inequality and Iraq.

Anyone with any perspective can look at the facts and see that objectively Blair and New Labour achieved many positive things.

at the time they stood out as one of the few times I've experienced positive politics and its effects in this country.

.

There hasn't been a better government since the earlier years of New Labour. OK, that's not saying much given how terrible many subsequent governments have been, but still...

i worry that in supporting these people there is a risk that there is an unspoken endorsement of their ideology, that the status quo is the only viable solution, and that once the status quo has been reestablished, then it's back to the business of pissing on the poor and fuck all changes for those that need it the most and then it's brexit all over again in 10 years time and we're all standing here scratching our balls asking "how the hell did this happen?"

Yeah. I would also be very nervous of aligning in any way with someone like Grieve.

Do you really mean "in any way"? This is what I don't understand.

every time a tory is appeased another homeless person dies on the street

We'll also need a significantly more sophisticated electorate who can see the world other than in black and white absolutes

When you vote in a referendum, I suspect you feel you're making the best decision you can given the complexities of the situation and a voting system which doesn't allow you a nuanced way to express your preferences. You also seem to think you're the only person in the world doing this.

Things which are not binary:

• People
  
  

Things which are binary:

• The voting system
  
• Your take on this
  

"Verhofstadt and other MEPs have for a long time been urging the UK to develop a cross-party approach to Brexit. Their stance reflects that fact that, in most continental countries, cross-party cooperation is much more common, and seen as much more desirable, than it is in the UK, where first-past-the-post and the adversarial nature of the House of Commons makes it a rarity."

Well, he's generally voted against further EU integration, he voted for the referendum and almost always voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK and against UK membership of the EU. So he seems like a pretty bad friend to have on Brexit anyway.

If he's saying stuff which seems appealing now it's probably like the time he voted consistently for the Iraq war then consistently for an investigation into it...

And Caroline Lucas again showing her class:

"While parliament might be deadlocked by Brexit, other political imperatives have not disappeared, and some MPs are trying to make sure they are not forgotten.

On Tuesday the Green MP Caroline Lucas and Labour MP Clive Lewis are publishing a private member’s bill for a so-called Green New Deal, intended to introduce a radical, decade-long shift to move to low-carbon energy, with wider environmental protections.

The idea has been in the news recently due to efforts by Democrat congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others to push it in the US. But the concept has been around for longer – Lucas co-founded a UK group dedicated to the idea 10 years ago.

Taking its name from Roosevelt’s New Deal of the 1930s, the Green New Deal would similarly seek to boost prosperity through government spending and intervention, in this case in areas such as more sustainable energy, homes and transport.

This is, Lucas and Lewis say, the first bill to reach the UK parliament, and they hope to gain some cross-party support. Lucas said: “We need to do what is required of us – not simply what is seen as politically possible.”

Wait. I compared political positions to political positions, and you compared paedophilia and a pop song, yet claim I'm playing rhetorical games?

This thread is starting to feel like accidentally crashing a couples' group therapy session.

The sexual tension is palpable.

Several people in this thread haven't had sex with each other for ages. Tempers were bound to flare up at some point.

But falling short of the quality found in the reviews for Pounded by the Pound

It's why I'm so chill.

People now days seem more likely to blame people who have different opinions rather than the cunts in power who have the power to change things.

This is, of course, not new but the very general outcome of 'divide-and-rule'.

second only to , which is second only to

Are those links SFW or NSFW? My spidey-senses are tingling.

yeah a bit. amazon tho.

They say the word 'butt'.

Yeah well good job I'm leaving as I opened all 3

Quite a thread from Peter Walker at the Brexit diehards seminar - https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1110542374319599621

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I wasn't referring to referenda. You appear to have misunderstood me again. Your take on my take on this isn't my take on this.