EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

No, it's not.

Negotiating Brexit

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.

We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.

“Labour will always put jobs and the economy first”

We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries. EU nationals do not just contribute to our society: they are part of our society. And they should not be used as bargaining chips.

It is shameful that the Prime Minister rejected repeated attempts by Labour to resolve this issue before Article 50 was triggered. As a result three million EU nationals have suffered unnecessary uncertainty, as have the 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU.

A Conservative Brexit will weaken workers’ rights, deregulate the economy, slash corporate taxes, sideline Parliament and democratic accountability, and cut Britain off from our closest allies and most important trading partners.

Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.

The issues that affect our continent now will continue to do so in the future – and Labour will continue to work constructively with the EU and other European nations on issues such as climate change, refugee crises and counter-terrorism.

We will build a close co-operative future relationship with the EU, not as members but as partners.

A Labour government will ensure that the UK maintains our leading research role by seeking to stay part of Horizon 2020 and its successor programmes and by welcoming research staff to the UK. We will seek to maintain membership of (or equivalent relationships with) European organisations which offer benefits to the UK such as Euratom and the European Medicines Agency. We will seek to ensure that Britain remains part of the Erasmus scheme so that British students have the same educational opportunities after we leave the EU.

The EU is the UK’s single largest trading partner in agricultural produce, with the vast majority of British exports being sold to European markets.

A Labour government will end the uncertainty for our farmers and food producers by securing continued EU market access allowing British farmers and food producers to continue to sell their products on the Continent.

Labour will also protect our farmers and rural economy by ensuring Britain continues to set the highest standards in food quality and welfare. We will not allow Brexit to be used as an excuse to undercut our farmers and flood Britain’s food chain with cheap and inferior produce.

We will drop the Conservatives’ Great Repeal Bill, replacing it with an EU Rights and Protections Bill that will ensure there is no detrimental change to workers’ rights, equality law, consumer rights or environmental protections as a result of Brexit.

Throughout the Brexit process, we will make sure that all EU-derived laws that are of benefit – including workplace laws, consumer rights and environmental protections – are fully protected without qualifications, limitations or sunset clauses. We will work with trade unions, businesses and stakeholders to ensure there is a consensus on this vital issue.

A Labour approach to Brexit will ensure there can be no rolling back of key rights and protections and that the UK does not lag behind Europe in workplace protections and environmental standards in future.

The EU has had a huge impact in securing workplace protections and environmental safeguards. But we all know that for many Brexiteers in the Tory Party, this was why they wanted to Leave – to tear up regulations and weaken hard-fought rights and protections.

A Labour government will never consider these rights a burden or accept the weakening of workers’ rights, consumer rights or environmental protections.

We will introduce legislation to ensure there are no gaps in national security and criminal justice arrangements as a result of Brexit.

Labour recognises the vital role that cross-border agencies such as Eurojust and Europol have played in making Britain safer and that European Arrest Warrants have been invaluable. A Labour government will seek to retain membership of these agencies and continue European Arrest Warrant arrangements.

Labour will seek a Brexit deal that delivers for all regions and nations of the UK.

We will introduce a ‘presumption of devolution’ where devolved powers transferred from the EU will go straight to the relevant region or nation. For many people and for much of our country, power can feel just as remote and unaccountable in Westminster as it does in Brussels. So a Labour government will seek to put powers as close to communities as possible.

We will ensure there is no drop in EU Structural Funding as a result of Brexit until the end of the current EU funding round in 2019/20. As part of Labour’s plans to rebalance and rebuild the economy, we will ensure that no region or nation of the UK is affected by the withdrawal of EU funding for the remainder of this Parliament. This will also apply to the funding of peace and reconciliation projects in Northern Ireland.

We will also improve engagement and dialogue with the devolved administrations and seek to ensure the final Brexit deal addresses specific concerns. In particular, Labour will ensure there is no return to a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and that there is no change in the status or sovereignty of Gibraltar. We will also protect Gibraltar’s economy and ensure that its government can continue to create jobs and prosperity in the years to come.

Where Theresa May wants to shut down scrutiny and challenge, Labour will welcome it. We will work with Parliament, not against it. On an issue of this importance, the Government can’t hide from the public or Parliament.

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

Yes it... oh wait

They were like

"brexit brexit something something cherries"

IIRC :)

No, it's not.

Yes, it really is, Oliver - read it: https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

EDIT: you've just cherry-picked the manifesto, awesome.

How about this bit, that makes the rest a Unicorn parade?

"Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union."

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

I have just quoted the text in full. There is nothing in there whatsoever that advocates a 'hard "Brexit"' and a lot that explicitly rejects one.

Partition the country. London, NI, Wales & Scotland are the Remain state, let's call it Anglo-Celtistan. The rump of England can Leave, they can still call themselves England which will keep every gammon happy. Everyone has 12 months to migrate to their abode of choice before the hard borders go up. What could possibly go wrong

Apart from what the EU have been saying since the referendum.

I agree, if you ignore that, then you are correct.

I have just quoted the text in full. There is nothing in there whatsoever that advocates a 'hard "Brexit"' and a lot that explicitly rejects one.

1 Attachment

EDIT: you've just cherry-picked the manifesto, awesome.

Er? I've quoted the exact same link as you.

Now you're cherry-picking a bit. :)

How about this bit, that makes the rest a Unicorn parade?

"Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union."

I explained just that bit recently:

https://www.lfgss.com/comments/14415600/

(I don't read all of this thread at all times, either.)

Your previous post was pure sophistry, Oliver.

The manifesto says "Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union."

That dictates a hard brexit, unless of course the EU have been lying all this time.

Oops, sorry, confused again by the images they put in between the bits of text. I thought the page ended there, even though I'd been there before. It doesn't matter, though, as there's nothing about a 'hard "Brexit"' on the rest of the page, either.

You are not telling the truth, Oliver. If you have any familiarity with what the EU have said, consistently throughout the whole process you will be aware that the Labour Manifesto ask for cake, and it cannot have cake.

That seems a little naive. A great deal is achieved via cross-party working, and it seems reasonable to expect elected officials to understand how to be effective while on the wrong side of parliamentary arithmetic. For a party to abandon all hope of influencing the course of events simply because it is in opposition is nonsensical. If that was the case then there would be little point in having an opposition until the end of an electoral cycle. And even then you might expect the incumbents to stand a greater chance of staying in power by virtue of the opposition having had too little visibility to make an impact during the term of the parliament. Fortunately, Labour looks like it might be beginning wake up from its navel-gazing torpor, so perhaps we might start to see some progress.

Your previous post was pure sophistry, Oliver.

No.

The manifesto says "Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union."

That dictates a hard brexit, unless of course the EU have been lying all this time.

It doesn't, no. My previous post on the issue stands.

Or just vote for what you think is right and hope enough other people do the same thing, because that's how democracy works?

I would assume you'd agree with the majority of the Lib Dem manifesto to vote for them though? Not just their stance on Brexit? Because if not, no, that's not how democracy should work, although I agree that in some cases this is how it misfires.

And if you did agree with the majority of it, then you probably wouldn't agree with the majority of Labour's manifesto I'd have thought, so why consider voting for them in the first place?

This is why I reckon on poll day the majority of the 'not voting for Labour cause brexit' will have to admit that they are the least worst option and vote for them any way.

Time to be alive etc.

My previous post on the issue stands.

You are, demonstrably, wrong.

You are not telling the truth, Oliver.

Ha.

If you have any familiarity with what the EU have said, consistently throughout the whole process you will be aware that the Labour Manifesto ask for cake, and it cannot have cake.

Of course. That doesn't dictate a 'hard "Brexit"', though. As I've previously asked about and subsequently concluded, I don't think Labour really have a plan the EU would find acceptable, either. It still doesn't dictate a 'hard "Brexit"', it just means that a putative Labour government approached the EU with this idea, they would probably run up against a brick wall just like Theresa May has done. Theresa May hasn't triggered a hard 'Brexit' yet, so why would Labour?

Clutching at straws with this sentence doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of things in there that explicitly rule out a hard 'Brexit': rejection of a 'no deal' scenario, etc.

You are, demonstrably, wrong.

Let others decide on that. Perhaps my sophistry will dazzle and persuade them.

Sophistry is always pure, like enquiries are always full and shock is always total.

All right, my pure sophistry, then.

'Labour accepts the referendum result' => Labour will take Britain out of the EU per their manifesto => 'Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union' => Freedom of Movement (and the other inseparable freedoms) ending means Hard Brexit

Can see where @Dammit is coming from

So is there any pathway which does not lead to a Mad Max hard Brexit?

Clutching at straws with this sentence

Clutching at straws now means "to take at face value"?

I completely retract my accusation of Sophistry Oliver, you can speak only the unvarnished truth.

I'm probably somewhere between lib dem and labour on most things, but I think that brexit is a big enough issue to be decisive.

The "everyone will vote labour" point assumes that brexit is just another issue like anything else. I don't think it is, I think it's more important.

But "Labour will always put jobs and the economy first" so Labour must prove any non-Remain option is better than Remaining in terms of impact on jobs and the economy.

This manifesto is a mess.

How can a hard Brexit fulfill the six tests explicitly put forward by Labour?

Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

It seems unusual to me that anyone would imagine the Conservatives - the party that openly allows for (and in many cases calls for) a hard Brexit - become the party of remain, and Labour - the party which has explicitly come out against - become the party of hard Brexit.