That Corbyn fella...

the system of apartheid was specific to SA for 50 years and to re-purpose this word to describe anywhere else undervalues the indignities endured by the majority of its citizens and the privileges of its minority. That said, the way non jewish folks (arabs) are often treated by the Israeli government sure smells like apartheid.

Am I allowed to weigh in on this as a South African Jew?

Your Venn diagram is strong in this thread, I say go for it.

why would you think you couldn't?

vat hom, fluffy.

As to the difference with Israel, because it was born from the Russian and European persecution of Jews, which culminated in genocide I just think you need to have a bit of cultural sensitivity. Coupled with that you rarely encounter other people who have the very right of their country to exist challenged as part of the criticism.

I don't think that's wholly representative of the migration of Jews to Palestine in the early 20c. I'm not disputing that many, many fled persecution, and felt that they had nowhere else to go but to paint it so black and white simply isn't true.

There were Zionist militia that helped the British invade Palestine with a very clear and defined intention to establish the state of Israel in response to "the Jewish Question".

The British and Arabs were equally shit, and there were decades of riots, armed rebellion and all manners of atrocities committed by all sides in the region.

My point here isn't to advocate or denounce zionism but I find it's important to understand the context and actions of those involved before making sweeping statements about why we should have some cultural sensitivity around such issues.

Israel exists because of an ideology that predates the oppression you reference and the politicised, modern Zionism was an acute distillation of that, partly in response to what was happening in Russia and Eastern Europe at the time. This is going to be very unpopular, but a contemporary comparison is ISIS, who have arguably been trying to do a similar thing. Are they entitled to feeling offended by those saying they had no right to form a caliphate, because they feel like they have endured a century of colonial oppression and foreign intervention?

Clumsy comparison, and contextually different but I'm interested to hear what qualifies one and not the other to warrant cultural sensitivity.

edit; just to clarify, I'm not comparing the atrocities that the Jews have endured to ISIS and British / American history in Middle East. More the proposition of two nation states being violently established under the guise of an ideology

What thread is this again?

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/israeli-born-anti-zionist-expelled-from-labour-party-1.445722

Am I allowed to weigh in on this as a South African Jew?

Sure.

Do you agree that Jeremy Corbyn's bike has too much steerer?

What thread is this again?

A good question. Corbyn chaired the Stop the War coalition, which has very clear views on Israel, and I think some of the tensions with Jewish people come from this connection.

Anyway, here is something positive to add.

https://www.facebook.com/aljazeera/videos/10156096601978690/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/12/jeremy-corbyn-says-would-vote-remain-second-eu-referendum?CMP=twt_gu

Corbyn says he would vote remain in a second ref.

Game changer.

centrist dad rage in 3... 2...

This has been discussed in the Brexit thread, but this is surely the start of the revocation process?

Is it possible they're having to get on with because May's position is now so tenuous?

Well, he doesn't quite say that. He says he voted 'remain' and hasn't changed his mind, but as a second referendum is purely hypothetical, he doesn't actually say he would vote 'remain' in it. I don't think it's a 'game changer', he's just being honest and answering the question fairly casually, as it's not a big deal (and all those who pretend it is are probably just looking for the big political story of the day; that said, by the way she gave her answer, May certainly made it into a bigger issue for herself--it's a bit like the 'what's the naughtiest thing you've done?' question, which Corbyn adroitly deflected and May made a complete mess of). At the same time, he stresses that Labour respects the referendum result.

I think in the context of May failing to even answer the question we're seeing a shift in Labour's stance and messaging over Brexit.

Corbyn stating that he is sticking to his guns on remain and the way he words Labour's stance on the referendum is important, which has hinted towards democratic duty over ideology — if anything that's a positioning move so that Labour are able to call for a second ref once brexit negotiations falter and the feasibility of a meanginful Brexit diminishes.

Corbyn seems so blasé about Brexit.
I'm quite frustrated with him and the Labour Party.

Fuck another referendum, why should the result be any different?

It might not be raining?

Why doesn't he pick one of the only two sides and vehemently stick to it no matter what other people say or think? The bastard.

Corbyn seems so blasé about Brexit.

Coz it hurts only the people his version of labour do not like

Old people died and some people lied.

Second ref is not part of Labour's policy, and quite rightly not to alienate the Leave leaning Labour voters and swingers.

They haven't officially ruled it out, and I think Corbyn is playing his cards right by "respecting the result" until the time is right to mount a remain riposte.

What makes you think they won’t lie again?

I think you give him too much credit

Why? Much of the Labour Party wanted to leave. Most of the people who voted wanted to leave.

What do you want JC to do? Push to remain because it’s Your preference? Don’t be frustrated by it, switch to Green or Yellow.