New 20 MPH speed limit to also apply to bikes in Southwark

I prefer dumplings.

Mmmm dumplings.

I warned about this exact thing to all the pro 20mph campaigners on this forum a while ago and was ridiculed for suggesting that such a thing might even be possible.

Be careful what you wish for.

Difficult to see how, even if it is enforcible, even if cycles all had speedos, that this rule could impinge on any cyclists' riding much. If you're cycling consistently over 20mph on city streets, you're going too fast.

I say support 20 mph limits, and that we press for their enforcement, for all if necessary.

I liked this line:

"Introducing speed limits where traffic speeds are too high places an unrealistic expectation to enforce on the Metropolitan Police," wrote Catherine Linney of the Met's traffic management unit.

Speed limits where traffic speeds are too high, what a crazy concept.

Robot cars

Leaving aside the utter brain-exploding WTF-ness of the article.
I have never ever seen cops out with handheld speed guns in London and we're pretty safe from static cameras (unless they put our faces on Crimewatch or something). I share the prediction that nothing will change whatsoever.

I'd love to know if speed guns are even rated by their manufacturers to measure bicycle speed. I would have thought that there was a lot more margin for error than with a car.

Straaava!

Actually, I think the Met have missed the opportunity for moneyspinner here. £30 for a speeding ticket. £40 to have it mounted in a tasteful frame to go on your mantelpiece.

Leaving aside the utter brain-exploding WTF-ness of the article.
I have never ever seen cops out with handheld speed guns in London and we're pretty safe from static cameras (unless they put our faces on Crimewatch or something). I share the prediction that nothing will change whatsoever.

I'd love to know if speed guns are even rated by their manufacturers to measure bicycle speed. I would have thought that there was a lot more margin for error than with a car.

They use them approaching the bottom of the hill in Greenwich Park.

That's not the same as them being rated and approved for use on bicycles, however.

That's not the same as them being rated and approved for use on bicycles, however.

True - but the police do use them - rated and approved for use on bicycles or not.
Has a cyclist ever been prosecuted or are they just used to 'warn'?

I'd lay a fiver on the fact that most of those pedestrian complaints relate to the canal path in Peckham.

I would take it to court if I got a ticket whilst riding a bike.

Maybe one day someone will do exactly that after getting ticketed for speeding in Richmond Park.

True - but the police do use them - rated and approved for use on bicycles or not.
Has a cyclist ever been prosecuted or are they just used to 'warn'?

FPNs are issued. One person (that I have read about) was taken to court.

Because there have been know challenges (as far as I am aware of) - I.e. everyone pays the FPN, and the chap that went to court pleaded guilty - they are used as bluster.

I read this -

**Re: Exceeding The Speed Limit On A Bicycle **

*I have some first hand knowledge of the specific Bournemouth Council attempt to implement cycling speed limits. The Ralph Mother In Law is a councilor in a neighboring town. It's a one off rather than a generalisation of the enforcement of speed limits relating to cyclists.

Consumed by their own self-importance they've passed a byelaw imposing a speed limit on cyclists but have found that it's unenforceable for the reasons I've described and which His Holiness expands upon - not wanting to lose face they've attempted to pseudo-enforce it by means of teaming up a police officer or PSCO with a Li20-20 and a council official. The police officer or fake-fed speed guns the cyclist and uses their statutory powers to demands them to stop - the cyclist commits an offence if they refuse to do so even if they've done nothing else wrong - the council official then abuses the powers vested in the accompanying plod or PCSO and delivers a condescending lecture relying on the fact that the cyclist doesn't know the law and is perfectly entitled to go on his way as soon as the plod/PCSO has no further need or justification to detain them. On at least one occasion the cyclist has been silly enough to give the council busybody a shove which has resulted in a "pursuit" involving 10+ police in cars, on foot or on bicycles and a subsequent prosecution for assault.

I'm pretty sure than there's no legislation than can be used to prosecute cyclists for exceeding the speed limit with no exetenuating circumstances on the road. I believe that there may be something in the legislation specific to the Royal Parks that may make the posted limit enforceable for cyclists.*

a "pursuit" involving 10+ police in cars, on foot or on bicycles

To a backing of comedy saxophone music, I hope

Seems a fair summary.

It is incorrect in parts, however - PCSOs have no powers to stop a cyclist, other than for cycling on a footpath, not obeying traffic signals, traffic directions, having more than one person on a bike, or incorrect lights and reflectors.

Neither do they have the power to issue FPNs for speeding offences, let all e speeding bicycles.

The Parks byelaws is also incorrect - local traffic authorities have no powers to set speed limits for bicycles. Although they regularly do (cf. Richmond Park).

I'm going to guess the enforcement will be stopping cyclists with no evidence and telling them they have been speeding while hoping they then agree and confess to speeding and pay a fine...

It's illegal to coast in a car, be careful those of you who don't ride fixed it's easily next on the list of car rules to apply to bikes.

Actually, I think the Met have missed the opportunity for moneyspinner here. £30 for a speeding ticket. £40 to have it mounted in a tasteful frame to go on your mantelpiece.

lol

Rep'd

The Parks byelaws is also incorrect - local traffic authorities have no powers to set speed limits for bicycles. Although they regularly do (cf. Richmond Park).

It's not a byelaw. It's "The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations 1997" act:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639/contents/made

(Note that's the original act, there are a whole bunch of amendments to it...)

having more than one person on a bike,

All child seats are illegal? As are tandems?

All child seats are illegal? As are tandems?

I guess he meant "having more that one person on a bike that has not been specifically adapted to carry extra passenger(s)."

This.

(Typing on phones warrants fewer words)

It's not a byelaw. It's "The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations 1997" act:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639/contents/made

(Note that's the original act, there are a whole bunch of amendments to it...)

True. The part about no speed limits for bikes still applies either way.

Jeez, is going to need to up my game, 20mph....or start getting in earlier