Should Scotland be an independent country?

yeah.....

Or just get a room?

naked mud debating

this sounds exactly like what I have experienced with Yes campaigners, particularly on Faceache - everything must be Yes and the shopping list gets wider and wider

http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/ewan-morrison-yes-why-i-joined-yes-and-why-i-changed-to-no/

naked mud debating

*throws switched-off TV out window*

On this board one side of the debate has been growing increasingly intemperate. People in the grip of feelings of anger, grievance and resentment - the stock-in-trade of identity politics - usually do not make good decisions.

this sounds exactly like what I have experienced with Yes campaigners, particularly on Faceache - everything must be Yes and the shopping list gets wider and wider

wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014­/09/15/ewan-morrison-yes-why-i-joined-ye­s-and-why-i-changed-to-no/

Will you post the reply to that solitary expression of disillusionment? Here you go:

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/16/an-open-letter-to-ewan-morrison-from-a-mate/

Personally, from reading his initial public support, it seems framed by an already twisted logic and notions of independence being an antidote for self-loathing. It doesn't surprise me that this position is difficult to reconcile in the long-term. I would absolutely disagree with any suggestion that there has been no place for debate, quite the contrary, although I can understand that if your engagement with the issues is primarily on FB, you won't get a sense of this.

Like you implying the RBS collapse was Salmond's responsibility because he worked there in the 80's? Misrepresenting De Valera's continuous rule of Ireland after their Independence? Presenting Landau's fag-paper missive as gospel?

No resentment in evidence there.

This post from a pro-union website is interesting. It is from a Scottish psychotherapist:

'From a broad historical perspective there are many episodes in Scottish history that have inflicted trauma on our collective psyche: The Jacobite rebellion. The Darien Venture. The Act of Union. The clearances. The impact of rapid, massive industrialisation and de-industrialisation (much more than any other European country experienced). The sectarianism that continues to scar the West of Scotland. The humiliating collapse of our banking industry.

When a patient comes to therapy with a similar personal history, an underlying pattern of narcissism and magical thinking is often revealed as the psychological process by which they have learnt to cope with their experiences. The process works by seeking to avoid unbearable feelings of worthlessness by either angrily projecting them onto others (‘You don’t believe in Scotland’), or by escaping into grandiose fantasies of wholeness and perfection (‘Independence will make us the wealthiest small country in the world’). While providing temporary relief, however, magical thinking is ultimately doomed to fail. The return to reality is always painful and often destructive. Furthermore it is a pattern of behaviour which, if the underlying psychological hard work of acquiring self-knowledge is not undertaken, is destined to repeat itself. It is perhaps worth noting that middle-aged men seem particularly vulnerable to these kinds of behaviour.'

LOL you're too much, really, and your post reflects a simplistic, reductive attitude to be able to hang mass-disillusionment with the UK by millions of people from every constituent country, let alone the Scottish Independence movement that gave birth to the post-war Labour party and has been present ever since.

Some of the most ardent Yes supporters I know are English (and female!?)-what's your psychoanalysis there, Professor?

On this board one side of the debate has been growing increasingly intemperate. People in the grip of feelings of anger, grievance and resentment - the stock-in-trade of identity politics - usually do not make good decisions.

You think your initial post saying that you disliked the Scots helped?

If you want to talk about absent voices or debate what about this? Who is silencing them?

http://thirdforcenews.org.uk/management/news/why-is-there-not-a-third-sector-no-asks-yes-campaign

^ I stopped reading right here - utter, utter nonsense

"With less than one week to go to the referendum, the group which campaigns for a yes vote claimed the reason there is not an equivalent third sector group representing 'no' is because only independence can create the sort of country which civil society aspires to"

You think your initial post saying that you disliked the Scots helped?

Excuse me?

Excuse me?

He's mistaken you for "airhead", who did say precisely that, though I have absolutely no idea why

Oh yeah, sorry about that, think you both arrived at the same time and I conflated.

People make mistakes. The thing to avoid is making mistakes that can't be undone.

Ignore that as you wish, but ask the question as to why there is not a No equivalent? Why don't they care about the third sector, given Dave's 'in it togetherness' and this caring society he promotes?

You've got to the root of it; people who support no are EVIL

That's not what I say, again, putting words into my mouth at your leisure.

Why not try responding with more than a flippant deflection?

Again, why is there no Better Together argument for the third sector?

But with the voting age lower Sir Beckham(lol) has swung the vote.

Oh Hai,

Yes I did say that based on my limited experience of the Scots I don't like them. I included 'limited experience'. I have had very little personal contact with Scots who live in Scotland, I know a few older Scots who have lived outside the country for years, they don't represent the Scottish to me.

My impression of the Scots shouldn't matter to them, it's similar to Scots not trusting Westminster, the chances are it's mostly based on lack of knowledge. I don't seek out the Scottish to make them feel my hate, I just haven't met any I get on with yet. Perhaps I should get out more but I like sunshine so I tend to go to France/Spain or Italy. Honestly I do have a decent circle of friends and acquaintances of all nationalities and there are no Scots in it beyond those who have been out of Scotland for 40 years or more.

However, getting back to it the few I have spent any time with rub me up the wrong way. There you go, 'limited experience'.

Lesley Riddoch tears apart the ridiculous, last-minute 'vow' of devo-max:

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/9753-vote-no-for-devo-something-sometime

I should get out more but I like sunshine so I tend to go to France/Spain or Italy.

I'd rather spend a sunny day sailing on the west coast or climbing a Munro than doing pretty much anything else on earth. You should visit, it might open your eyes.

I stopped reading at 'scaremongering' FFS

Lesley Riddoch tears apart the ridiculous, last-minute 'vow' of devo-max:

newsnetscotland.com/index.php­/scottish-opinion/9753-vote-no-for-devo-­something-sometime