Pre 1950s rides of LFGSS: old bikes, vintage rats, classic lightweights

Way too big. Which is a shame, because these are really lovely looking tyres. Needs to be a 25.

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Boo, what are you going to try next?

Not sure yet. Veloflex Vvlaaaanderen are pretty and are 27mm but are too much $$$ to justify. Most other tan walls are much narrower. I think they are out there in 25mm, just not sold at the usual outlets like Wiggle, Ribble etc.

Ok, so this seems as good a place as amny to ask. I'm in the market for a road/track frame 1950's or older, preferably with mudguard eyes. If you had a choice to make between a frame that doesn't entirely match these requirments (ie no mudguard eyes, more of a pure track frame, but is the right size) and is a brand you have an affinity with (ie carlron-my Dad had one and I'm from Nottinghamshire) but it has been refurbished and repainted recently, and a frame that has its lovely old original paint and decals, has mudguard eyes, but is of a make you have no real connection to otherwise (all be it still a lovely frame-a Pennine), which would you go for. The refurbed one then you have a affinity for, or the nice frame in it's original paint.?? Nice conundrum to have, admitedly...

I'd opt for the former. Once it has been refurbished you can enjoy it without being too worried about damaging the original paint and decals. As a more general observation, it sounds like a path racer might be the kind of hybrid road/track frame you're looking for.

Both.

on a serious note, I love the patina indeed...I'd go for the Carlton-ish...

I love patina myself. In saying that, if you don't want mudguard eyelets, don't rush into something that isn't right. There'll be something else just round the corner. What I'm trying to say is don't feel pressured into something that isn't perfect for you i.e let everyone in the bike community know what you're after, have plenty of conversations, join the VCC if you haven't already and wait for the perfect bike to come up, it won't be long.

Well, after much hunting I found a frame in my size for a good price that I was told is a pre Bob Jackson JRJ track frame that has been a bit mucked around with. I was wondering if anyone here could help me positively identify it. It has a very interesting bottom bracket with reinforcements on the seat stays that match this JRJ track from the early 50's on classic lightweights. http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bikes/jrj-rb.html.

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also has a fork crown and wheelbase measurement that seem to match up.

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however, the only numbers I can find are an 78 on drive side dropout and an 82 on the other dropout and the fork steerer tube, which would seem remarkably early, as well as 18332 that appears to be hand scratched into the steerer tube, which would seem to late to be a frame number.

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drive side with what I assume to be a (rather rough) later braze on

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also, has quite an ornate seat lug set up that may help identify it,

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rest of the frame appears pretty mucked around with, including this seat stay brake bridge that I assume has been altered later to take a brake??-Maybe someone with more knowledge about frame building can help me with this???

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how close is the brake bridge to this?

Are there any other braze-ons?
I have the EA Boult that Dave Orr describes on this page. The brake bridge part on the Boult was made by Roy Mitchell.
My project is at http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87348

pretty similar actually. If Roy Mitchell was based in stockport, I guess Leeds is not too far away and he may have supplied JRJ... Just waiting for Bob Jackson to get back to me RE frame numbers-not sure if I found these or not, mind you, the numbers I found seem a little random

Looks like a nice frame. Any full side on shots? What are you thinking you'll do i.e remove braze ons / paint / build when you work out what it is?

Not totally sure yet. I thought I'd wait until I find out more about it's age etc before starting on parts or considering painting/removing braze ons etc. Until then I may build it up from the parts bin with roughly period correct bits and ride it as is. Hopefully will hear back from bob jackson tomorrow, so fingers crossed they can shed some light on it. Very Nice frame though, extremely light as well... Will take some more photo's tomorrow afternoon when back from work...

That little notch on the seat lug is purdy.

yes, nice isn't it. Just heard back from Donald at Bob Jackson who doesn't recognise it as one of there frames, so hard to say now. The bottom bracket reinforcement looks very similar indeed but the fork crown lacks some of the details of a JRJ and the frame numbers don't seem to match up. SO any ideas anyone???

The late Ron Cooper's interview recorded for Jack Thurston's excellent Bike Show on Resonance may be worth hearing - in it he says something like:

'In the 50s there was someone building frames on every other street corner. People bring me a 531 frame with Nervex lugs and ask "who built this Ron?". And I reply "How should I blinking know?!"'

sounds about right. Guess I'll keep it as is for now unless I find out some info. That way at least it will be safer to use/lock up in Central London. (Touch wood). Still a lovely frame, who ever built it....

Have you been through all the builders on classic lightweights? It's going to be that signature notch in the seat cluster and partial wrapover stays that give it away.

There's a group on Facebook called Vintage Bicycles UK which seem to revel in IDing frames. Perhaps try posting it there?

I'd ask Graham at Vintage Bike Cave.