Navigating Bow roundabout/flyover

Absolutely...that really is the only way. You have only to look at a map of the area or an aerial view to see how ridiculously complicated that whole junction is. The simpler a junction, the easier it is to understand and negotiate, the safer it becomes. Couple that with reduced speed limits, although by simplifying a junction this could well be a side effect. Many of these massive junctions in London, designed to be part of a huge London wide road system which never materialised in the end, have built in multi lane wide stretches which encourage short bursts of speed where there is space, followed by dramatic slowing down when the road narrows again. Simplify the junction, taking some of that space away from motor traffic results in more uniform speeds across a whole motor vehicle journey.

 But getting TfL traffic planners to see that argument is so hard.  I am pretty fed up at the moment having been to a meeting a couple of weeks ago about the proposed Lewisham Gateway development.  Here there actually is a unique opportunity to redesign a major junction from scratch... They are removing the horrid roundabout completely.  What have they come up with, despite advice to the contrary, more of the same old multi lane complex junctions... And whenever we suggested taking space away from motor traffic, TfL reps come up with reasons why they can't.  The whole thing looks like a massive multi lane race track.  Depressing.  We have told them exactly what we think, but I have a horrid feeling it will make no difference.

Thanks for quoting that, Jane. I probably would have written exactly the same thing again had you not reminded me that I'd already posted it. :)

N16commuter, give the LCC a call if you want more info--ask for Mike Cavenett or Charlie Lloyd on 020-7234 9310. I imagine that the ES journalist knows about them and has already spoken to them. They probably wanted a non-LCC comment from you, but you're clearly uncomfortable with saying something about it. Just follow your instinct and say that you don't want to comment or say what you think if you can arrive at a form of words that you're comfortable with.

I feel your pain about Lewisham, Jane. You will have seen our Old Street/City Road page. Something similar is needed for Lewisham, Bow, and many other areas. The problem is that the big problems are being shirked, largely because there's no proper development and planning strategy in place for London, and no political leadership whatsoever, with the Mayor being a visionless vacuum when it comes to dealing with this stuff (not that his predecessor was any better--in fact, he certainly exacerbated the problem with his 'tall buildings in the centre' strategy). It's still 'everybody pile into Central London' and damn the consequences for street design. We design junctions only for rush hour (tidal) traffic--flood in the morning, ebb in the evening, and mostly radial, so it's no miraculous surprise that designs are this bad.

Junctions like Bow were designed when planners thought that London should be penetrated by urban motorways and that all the future would be car traffic. It is now completely out of its time and requires that radical redesign. And, yes, it would cost tens of millions of pounds and cause huge disruption, but it's the only way to even out activity across London (as I always preach) to solve some of its problems. At the moment, it's just business as usual--the same old paralysing motor traffic capacity nonsense, no sane voice on engineering, etc.

I'm not familiar with Bow roundabout but I'm assuming that cyclists don't use the A12 and therefore practically all bike traffic goes straight across it east-west and vice versa.

Wouldn't an obvious but expensive solution be an extra pair of flyovers that take cyclists (and pedestrians) straight over the top of it?

So, question is: is there any sort of consensus amongst cyclists about best practice in the actual design of infrastructure like the Bow roundabout and what the design of CS2 got wrong?

I should add: Designing first only along the links between two major nodes is a mistake. In whatever you do, you want to first consider what people do with the wider network (change the nature and purpose of traffic, e.g. stop people rat-running or enable people to do their daily business by making it possible for them to live closer to wherever they have to go, and not having to take so many trips to different destinations, etc.), then you treat the nodes (e.g., you've reduced the need to travel by looking at the network, and now you can reduce a junction in size because you don't need it to pump so many cars through), and lastly you can look at the link, whose operation is the least important in network logic.

The CS2 mistake is that virtually nothing was done about the junctions (comprehensive network-wide measures would go way beyond the scope of a CS, although are not inconceivable, e.g. modal filtering of some side streets to reduce side street interaction); there was one half-decent junction treatment of the Cambridge Heath Road junction (which could have gone further), but almost nothing else. It's at or near junctions where the vast majority of crashes occur, so if you give people the illusion of 'safety' (a slippery concept if ever there was one), their crash risk will merely be shifted along to the junctions.

The main nodes are the A11 Bow Interchange and the Stratford gyratory. Amending both of these mistakes of the past is very costly, much more costly than shifting a few kerblines along a link (and the idea of reducing the A118 Stratford High Street to two general traffic lanes each way had been around for a long time, anyway--I first heard about it in the context of the disastrous Stratford City development in 2002 or so). The complaints that TfL doesn't have any money are, of course, a consequence of all that austerity nonsense; if you want to have some more and better-quality economic activity for a growing population, a good project like a new town centre in a location that undershoots its potential, right next to the Olympic Park, is really where you want to go.

This would make a lot of journeys stop at Bow and relieve the pressure on the further course of the A11 into Central London, create more jobs there, etc. It would be win-win and if consistently applied throughout London, it would also have a beneficial impact on road danger reduction.

Many of these massive junctions in London, designed to be part of a huge London wide road system which never materialised in the end, have built in multi lane wide stretches which encourage short bursts of speed where there is space, followed by dramatic slowing down when the road narrows again. Simplify the junction, taking some of that space away from motor traffic results in more uniform speeds across a whole motor vehicle journey.

Road diets eh? It's a concept I totally love, but it's really counterintuitive so it's difficult for planners to believe that it will actually work and it's really hard to sell politically.

I'm not familiar with Bow roundabout but I'm assuming that cyclists don't use the A12 and therefore practically all bike traffic goes straight across it east-west and vice versa.

Wouldn't an obvious but expensive solution be an extra pair of flyovers that take cyclists (and pedestrians) straight over the top of it?

Well, there's obviously not a lot of cycle traffic along the A12. You're also not permitted to cycle along the A12's M11 Link Road bit (the legal situation in the bit between the Blackwall Tunnel and Bow at least, possibly up to the A12 Lea Interchange, seems to be that you can, although few would choose to--I've been along that bit, but not recently).

When you design junctions, the two things you want to avoid are increased junction envelopes (always create poor crossability, a lot of severance, and reduce room for joining up the 'grain' of the city, e.g. development on the corners) and grade separation (flyovers, underpasses, etc.). You can't even offset the disadvantages of large junction envelopes by grade separation. Avoid over-complication and make sure that London maximises its historical advantages--that unlike most other major cities, very few urban motorways were actually built and that we now have a chance of seeing these mistakes for what they were and cut them back. This includes small junctions that make people actually stop and interact and trade there, creating human-scale environments in which there is less need for endless travel and estrangement.

Motorway - The Kinks 1972 - YouTube

Road diets eh? It's a concept I totally love, but it's really counterintuitive so it's difficult for planners to believe that it will actually work and it's really hard to sell politically.

That, too, but it's important to realise that sometimes reducing the number of traffic lanes can actually increase motor traffic throughput. In the particular case of the A118, and other urban motorways, like the A102 and A12, the idea is to reduce awkward lane-changing movements at the signalised junctions, as it actually reduces motor traffic capacity more than reducing the number of traffic lanes would. The latter would confuse people less about what kind of lane to take. It's obviously different for motorways without any form of signal-controlled junctions.

That, too, but it's important to realise that sometimes reducing the number of traffic lanes can actually increase motor traffic throughput.

Yup, that's the counter-intuitive part!

...Junctions like Bow were designed when planners thought that London should be penetrated by urban motorways and that all the future would be car traffic. It is now completely out of its time and requires that radical redesign. ...

Very good point.

As an aside, you can see those plans reflected in some buildings in areas where the motorways were supposed to be - Moorlands Estate in Brixton, for example. If you have ever gone down Coldharbour Lane, which was going to be part of the motorway, you'll notice this monstrosity of a building. Huge walls, very few and small windows on the north side (back) of the building.

back on topic, let's hope they get a redesign done, and right!

Ambiguity at Bow Roundabout - new cycle lights - RLJ? (Westbound) - YouTube

recorded 1 November 2013

One way of dealing with the Bow Roundabout segregation lights Westbound - YouTube

recorded 6 November 2013

Thought these two clips shed some light on the nature of the new phasing.

I think it would be pretty ambiguous the first time you encounter it. I don't use it often enough to know what it is really like, but I would still probably opt for the second technique as that is what I am used to and feel comfortable doing - ie sharing the space with the other traffic.
Is that wrong considering all the investment in segregation?

The second video, that cyclist in front of the camera rode really well, almost as if he had Cycle Training.

It not wrong as you're within your right not to ride on the cycle lane as show in bold according to the Highway Code;

63
Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway (see Rule 140). Keep within the lane when practicable. When leaving a cycle lane check before pulling out that it is safe to do so and signal your intention clearly to other road users. Use of cycle lanes is not compulsory and will depend on your experience and skills, but they can make your journey safer.

Unfortunately, the majority of drivers did not know this.

The second option looks much more preferable to me, but it needs emphasising that the rider behind the van is way more patient than most others would be. Even though the van is indicating left there's a massive gap down the inside and he could've probably passed it without any trouble.

It doesn't take much imagination to replace the van with HGV, and see plenty of other cyclists taking their chances. Probably not a calculated risk either, more like a head-up-their-arse one.

Edit - The suggestion that anyone who rides with a bit of competence probably had training is insulting.

Even though the van is indicating left there's a massive gap down the inside and he could've probably passed it without any trouble.

IMHO, it's rarely a good idea to undertake despite the gap.

Back on the commute this morning from Stratford to St Paul's after 10 days away. I was more worried than usual about starting up riding again - I usually am anyway after time off the bike, but with the sheer number of fatalities in recent weeks, sites that i have to ride past, it always makes me feel terrible.

This morning was ok, however I dont like the fact the new segregated section westbound pretty much forces you to use the roundabout, unless you want to loiter around until the route to the flyover is clear.

So I used the roundabout with caution. All was well until i reached the westbound exit (where the blue paint hops onto the pavement for a section, bears left, before dropping back onto the road) where a police van has parked up directly in the cycle lane, forcing riders out into the single lane, and due to the timing of the lights, this lane was filled with heavy traffic including buses and HGV's.

Evidently I held back and waited for it to be clear, but positioning a vehicle in such a way at such a well known accident hotspot had me riding angry the rest of the way.

They're never receptive on feedback either. A pcso had once parked his tricycle perpendicular to the road in cs2/bus lane just past grove road/mile end junction forcing me to move out to go around him, luckily I was only one but just behind me was the usual gaggle still pulling away from the lights who were going to have more of an issue. He didn't respond well to my "feedback" about the positioning of his bike and told me to leave and not concern myself with police business. I tried pointing out many other places he could park and still be in good view of the road for whatever reason he might have to be sitting there to no avail. Eventually a bus turned up and leant on his horn long enough to make the guy fuck off. I laughed in his face.

I see no reason why the North-South underpass could not continue to exist in its present form, retaining the traffic capacity and keeping the A12 vehicles away from the populated area. However, there's no real need to retain the flyover or the roundabout for the East-West traffic, and it can surely all be replaced with a light controlled junction. As as been mentioned, no cycle traffic is going left or right at this point, so the phasing could favour east-west traffic, and there is enough length to the A12 exit ramps to hold turning traffic up for longer.

I'm not sure if height restrictions would allow, but it would be rather nice if at the same time, the roofing over of the A12 were extended a bit north and south to provide space to build alongside the Bow road and continue the high-street feeling across to the Stratford road, with the resulting change in townscape, and consequential change in driving style, being very apparent to people leaving the A12. This could also potentially provide cycles with uninterrupted east-west lanes over the A12 to the north and south over the top of the A12 exit and entry ramps.

Yes, none of it is rocket science. Building bridges is costly, but here you should stick development on top. Right next to the Olympic Park? About equidistant between Stratford and Mile End? Stree-level activity instead of only pollution and motorway wasteland atmosphere? Go!

I think the Bow flyover situation is really simple to resolve (I cycle this most days, so bear with me here):

1) 99% peds and cyclists are going east/west.
2) Traffic is doing all directions, but west to east traffic over the flyover is minimal. East to west is mixed, but this is already one lane anyway.
3) There is NO pedestrian crossing that actually allows peds to safely go east/west across the blasted roundabout (unless you are a professional sprinter).

So my view is this - get the bikes and peds away from the roundabout and use the flyover...
a) On the West -> East side of the flyover, take one whole lane and convert into cheap ped lane + segregated bike lane. Put ped/cycle crossing points at either end of the flyover. I had a look at TFL's first attempt at this, but it was stupid as it forced all cyclists to use the ped/cycle crossing to access the segregated part... daft and slow.
b) On the East -> West side, rinse and repeat, but make this a "full cycle lane only" affair and move the road lane out into the hashed section. Add cycle crossing lights at the east side so bikes can easily get across to the flyover.

• Note, none of this impacts the bow roundabout... so any excuses about impact on traffic flow can be ignored here...
  
  

For the rest of the CS2 between Aldgate/Bow Flyover, I would make the bus lanes 24hrs mandatory Bike/Taxi/Bus only. No other traffic allowed. And paint the whole lot blue + remove the rights for car parking outside rush hour...

• For all bus stops, make sure there is enough space for bikes to go round the outside the bus and stay within the restricted lane.

• After that, then we are into pavement reduction/segregated cycle lanes. But my issue is that the whole route is so busy (with junctions, tight bridges) that it would make the whole thing too complicated to use without making it more of a nodder fest than it already is.

That's my thoughts...

As as been mentioned, no cycle traffic is going left or right at this point,

This just isn't true.

Granted, I'm a data point of one, and I know I have an unusual journey, but almost the only times I use the Bow r/b are to go between the A12/Blackwall Tunnel Approach and Stratford - either I'm travelling northbound, and go right round the r/b towards Stratford, or I'm coming from Stratford and turning left.

This is as part of a Greenwich Foot Tunnel to Stratford or Leytonstone journey, and I much prefer the A12/Bow route to going via Canning Town.

is going over the top an allowable option ?
i only ever use that roundabout if i'm pissed and heading back to stratford or it's really windy
the east to west direction there is lots of spare space due to only one carriageway cars can pull over towards the centre and leave lots of room
west to east can be a bit hairy if cars are hooning it over the bridge but it doesn't seem as dangerous as going under and round the roundabout ?

Headed towards the flyover from Stratford into town this morning so got into right lane, primary.

Transit behind aggro, revving. Undertakes into left lane to pull alongside. Driver foaming at mouth:

"That's going to get you killed, you should be there" Points at blue bit.

"But I'm going over the flyover, it's safer"

Something unintelligible combined with more frothing

"Calm down , mate"

"PRICK, fucking prick!"

What's depressing is I felt I wouldn't have had this exchange if the roads weren't crawling with plastic cops focusing on cyclists.

I recently wrote a shirty email to TfL about the 'improved roundabout', changes to which the lorry driver who very nearly squished me failed to notice, and this is their latest reply -

Our ref: 1013868565/FK

Date: 31.03.2014

Dear Mr Crawford

Thank you for your recent communication with regards to the signals at Bow Roundabout.

We would firstly like to say that we appreciate your taking the time to bring this matter to our attention. In managing London’s very sophisticated traffic systems, we seek to balance the needs of everyone within a heavily over-subscribed road network to ensure safety of all road users while keeping London moving.

Bow Roundabout uses cycle gates to allow cyclists to get ahead of vehicular traffic when approaching from either the east or west.

Vehicles are held at a secondary stop line whilst cycles using the segregated cycle lane are allowed through the cycle gate ahead to the main stop line at the roundabout, which is held on a red signal. Cycles are stopped at the cycle gate several seconds before vehicles at the secondary are allowed to proceed, ensuring that vehicles and cyclists are not proceeding at the same time at this point.

At the roundabout, the signals display a green signal 2 seconds before vehicles at the secondary stop line. This delay and the travel time between the secondary stop lien and the roundabout is designed to give waiting cycles at the roundabout a head start over other traffic.

Low level cycle signals were introduced at the start of February on the east and west approaches to the roundabout. These were installed at the cycle gate stop line for cyclists and also below the normal traffic signals at the main roundabout stop line.

The low level cycle signals act as repeaters of the high level signals to give additional information to cyclists and change in unison with the high level signals. They have red, amber and green aspects with cycle lenses clearly indicating when cycles can proceed at each stop line.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Please contact me again if you need any further assistance, or if you would prefer to talk to us about this matter, please call us on 0343 222 1234.

Kind regards

Feven Kahsay

That is actually a far less generic and patronising email than the previous reply I got, but I'm interested to know what others think of Bow's main gyratory now? I'm by no means a timid cyclist, or indeed a slow through the lights one, yet I still find this junction almost as horrible as it was before.

Customer Service Adviser
Transport for London Customer Services

I've only used the roundabout once - when lugging about 15 kg of fliers to Stratford to hand out at the velodrome. Otherwise I always go over the fly-over as it seems much safer. Also the rest of CS2 was a joke. Exactly why I hate the idea of segregated lanes.

(also, hi Mr Crawford )

The last time I cycled over I got screamed at by a driver for being on the road. If there was a fast, viable alternative I'd use that to get home from Stratford. (West to east doesn't bother me as much as the other way.)

And yes, Miss Branwen, gender assumptions are a useful at times, annoying at others and in this case makes me wonder how I'm supposed to have faith in an organisation that always addresses me as my dad :/

Ironically a segregated catwalk next to the flyover would make sense in this instance, esp. as bikes can't go left/right.

Edit: or indeed, if you really wanted to show you we're actually pro-cycling (oh hai borris) you would close the flyover to cars and have it bikes only