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Stolen from the Brand article comments. Worth remembering...
Let's not forget Maggie supported Pol Pot - let me repeat this: when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia (Year Zero) , Mrs Thatcher supported Pol Pot and made sure they kept their seat at the UN. Mrs Thatcher supported a government that eliminated 30% of their population. -
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10 quid posted in the UK. -
"We can have her funeral handled by the lowest bidder. It's what she would have wanted."
Glenda Jackson launches tirade against Thatcher in tribute debate - YouTube
Well put both.
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Tis forum needs to HTFU, its like a Trotsky fan club meeting behind the bike sheds in here.
If you think police brutality and state suppression was a Thatcherite invention, you have no idea of British history. My dad grew up a roman catholic in the 30's, and he will tell you a thing or 2 about police brutality back then that makes the 80's look like a walk in the park.
The nation was fucked when she took power, and there where riots and violence a plenty before she came to power. Years of mismanagement of British industry are what did for the people who she supposedly fucked over, she took a sledge hammer to the problems, but your fools if you think it would have been any different in the end under anyone else.
I have been a member here for a long time, and it used to be that we could all agree to disagree but respect each others opinion, but the attitude shown on here is as narrow minded as any daily mail Thatcherite love in.
Lets talk about Arthur Scargill, he's the one who lead em all on a merry dance into Thatchers clutches, but while she's lying there cold he's sitting there warming himself in his grace and favour flat.
Thatcher was a direct result of the socialist movements inability to organise a piss up in a brewery, if they hadn't pissed away the good will of a nation then she never would have come to power.
The reason why your opinion isn't respected is because it's stupid ill-informed anti lefty bollocks. Employing the usual daily mail cliches.
If you're feeling a little fragile because there are plenty of people that don't agree with you then maybe you should HTFU -
I will be glad when the cunt is buried and we can get over the clammer.
I imagine David Cameron is delighted that the death has occurred while the tories are in office so he can use it for political posturing. I dont believe many of them actually gave a fuck about her in her senile state.
The rewriting of history is the hardest to stomach and I really appreciate Glenda Jackson's words of defiance.
Ding Dong
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The reason why your opinion isn't respected is because it's stupid ill-informed anti lefty bollocks. Employing the usual daily mail cliches.
If you're feeling a little fragile because there are plenty of people that don't agree with you then maybe you should HTFUI would disagree with a couple of points on here.
Neil Kinnock (hardly that Daily Mail bastion of anti-leftiness) was on TV the other day and explicitly criticised the NUM and Scargill for being so intransigent and obstructive in their dealings with the government during the Miners strikes. He said that this made things worse ultimately for the communities that the unions were supposed to represent. So neither ill informed nor just deploying usual daily mail cliches. -
So how exactly did it make it worse for those communities?
The miners were forced back to work and most of the pits were closed anyway.
Even if the miners had won the strike, the pits would still be closed.
That was what Thatcher wanted all along, competition in coal and she got it.Neil Kinnock is a pointless windbag who missed every opportunity to stop Monetarism but its not his fault Thatcher was such a cunt.
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So how exactly did it make it worse for those communities?
The miners were forced back to work and most of the pits were closed anyway.
Even if the miners had won the strike, the pits would still be closed.
That was what Thatcher wanted all along, competition in coal and she got it.Neil Kinnock is a pointless windbag who missed every opportunity to stop Monetarism but its not his fault Thatcher was such a cunt.
Kinnock basically said that had the NUM been prepared to negotiate and compromise then the Government would have been more reasonable in it's response as he said that Thatcher was more pragmatic than was perceived but the leaders of that union pushed her too far.
Anyway, what I am challenging is the concept that Vinylvillains post is "DailyMail anti-leftiness" when in fact some of it is broadly in line with some of the thinking of leader of the Labour party at the time. -
I was having a brief scan of the headlines in the newspapers in the shops last night to see what they made of la Thatch popping her clogs. The ones that supported her were the Times and the Torygraph, obviously, but also The Sun!
I was baffled as to why dozens of people on my Facebook feed were posting "you don't know anything about her! She's a nice old frail lady and you're all stupid!" when they all grew up in council estates in deprived areas that have never recovered. Anyway, I think they've all just outed themselves as Sun readers.
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Kinnock basically said that had the NUM been prepared to negotiate and compromise then the Government would have been more reasonable in it's response as he said that Thatcher was more pragmatic than was perceived but the leaders of that union pushed her too far.
Anyway, what I am challenging is the concept that Vinylvillains post is "DailyMail anti-leftiness" when in fact some of it is broadly in line with some of the thinking of leader of the Labour party at the time.Thatcher had goals agendas and policies which she was determined to push through.
She had her sights on the British Coal Industry and wanted it massively downsized and/or privatised. The '84 miners' strike was merely a symptom of these desires on her part. Any negotiation or compromise on the part of the NUM would have made no difference whatsoever as long as she was in power.
Neil Kinnock's failure to offer any effective opposition, only strengthened Thatcher in pushing through her policies and for him to try and blame Scargill is merely a smokescreen. Kinnock was completely ineffectual and many have never forgiven him for his speech on the eve of the 1992 general election which basically handed the result to John Major. Even though he was Labour leader during some of Thatcher's tenure, he is incapable of any objective commentary, simply because he was then and still is, clueless. -
Thatcher had goals agendas and policies which she was determined to push through.
She had her sights on the British Coal Industry and wanted it massively downsized and/or privatised. The '84 miners' strike was merely a symptom of these desires on her part. Any negotiation or compromise on the part of the NUM would have made no difference whatsoever as long as she was in power.She'd seen what the power of the mining unions could do to a government she was part of, as Education Secretary in Ted Heath's government, and wanted to ensure that never happened again. Her appointment of Ian MacGregor as chairman of the NCB was a deliberate step to reduce the British coal industry.
Her use of the Police during the coal strike went way beyond what was allowed in law at the time too.
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to the two posts above again what I am challenging is the concept that Vinylvillains post is "DailyMail anti-leftiness" when in fact some of it is broadly in line with some of the thinking of leader of the Labour party at the time.
I am not challenging the idea that communities and groups did suffer during the 1980's as a result of some of the policy decisions taken at the time.
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She had her sights on the British Coal Industry and wanted it massively downsized and/or privatised. The '84 miners' strike was merely a symptom of these desires on her part. Any negotiation or compromise on the part of the NUM would have made no difference whatsoever as long as she was in power.
I've always wondered why the coal industry never recovered - it seems to me that if you could profitably get coal out of the ground in South Wales, then someone would be doing it. That indicates to me that the industry was on the way out. Managed decline was hardly one of Thatcher's buzzwords, though was it?
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^^I'm challenging the notion that Neil Kinnock (Labour leader in 1984) did much thinking.
^She would have no problem with the word 'decline' (of the NCB) rather, with the word 'managed' (by the state)
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Getting rid of milk from school was a blessing, hated the stuff in those small bottles especially on warm days when it had warmed up and started to go off, can't stand neat milk to this day.
The whole reason milk was provided to schools was to support the over production of milk by farming industry - in effect a market altering subsidy.
It also was not her, but the Treasury who implemented the removal of the subsidy.
but anyway, I'm off to read the Daily Mail.
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I am not trolling this thread. Just pointing out 2 sides to the story.
*290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in** office, and about 160 under Thatcher*
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2013/04/wilson-closed-more-coal-mines-than-thatcher.html
Some of the bollocks being mentioned elsewhere - that we now import power because MT closed the mines is utter rubbish.
If they were still open we would still be importing power - mainly because there was not enough coal easily accessible in the closed mines to make them viable.
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I've got a feeling, and I'm not sure what data would back this up, that the closures of mines/ship yards/manufacturing industry wasn't handled in the best way. Rather than planning a "what next?" there was a "do this and let the "market" decide".
And then when people protest about the situation, we'll use the police/army to keep the peace.
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Glenda Jackson launches tirade against Thatcher in tribute debate - YouTube
get it up ye's Tory fantasists and fanatacists!
"Knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing."
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nice bit of entrepreneurial skills maggie would have admired !
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10 quid posted in the UK. -
I am not trolling this thread. Just pointing out 2 sides to the story.
*290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in** office, and about 160 under Thatcher*
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2013/04/wilson-closed-more-coal-mines-than-thatcher.html
Some of the bollocks being mentioned elsewhere - that we now import power because MT closed the mines is utter rubbish.
If they were still open we would still be importing power - mainly because there was not enough coal easily accessible in the closed mines to make them viable.
sssshhh once the pack smell blood they won't let a couple of miner facts get in their way.
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Coal mining as an industry in the UK was in long term decline through the second half of the twentieth century. The issue many have with Thatcher is not that she closed the mines, but rather that she didn't give a damn about the welfare of the hundreds of thousands of people affected by the mine closures. Some areas have never recovered from the economic impact this had.
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The day that Thatcher died
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I guess [strike]Mandela[/strike] that terrorist and his ilk needed a dose HTFU? How can you justify her dealings with the government that upheld Apartheid? What are your views on Apartheid? Maybe this melt needed some of your HTFU (whilst the police beat him to death)
I guess the families/loved ones of those who never ever returned from a game of football need a dose of HTFU? How do you justify the behaviour of the police and state lawyers who tampered the statements of those that told the truth to uphold their lies?
I guess the shop keepers in Liverpool need a dose of HTFU and should start selling the Sun?
How can you justify the [strike]headlines[/strike] lies printed in that paper about fans stealing and urinating on their dead cousins/brothers/friends/sons? I assuming you do know the paper trail leads to her cabinet thus far? You do know the head of the constabulary that oversaw this biggest state criminality retired on full honours, a knighthood and a £1,000,000.00 pension? How do you justify this?
Would you like me to illuminate you on the suffering of the miners, their families and villages?
Maybe if you feel so strongly, you could message these people:
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