Things cyclists should know … POV driver who's incapable of cycling

Mr and Mrs Erthloop.

you are B&D and I claim my 5 dorrah

Mr and Mrs Erthloop.

you are B&D and I claim my 5 dorrah

bastards

On the issue of groups of cyclists. How do you behave when you come across groups of drivers, you know, slowly creeping along?
My money is on you sitting and chilling, not waiting for a gap to pass.
Treat the users of the road as people, not drivers or cyclists. Just chill and wait. The road is for people, doesn't matter what they use to get about. If everyone just relaxed a bit and let others go about their business it would reduce the stress all round.

Pretty much exactly the same as when overtaking a group of cyclists actually. Pootle along until it is safe for me to do so, when I am the vehicle immediately behind the group of cyclists/slow moving vehicle causing a tailback. If I am not at the front of the queue of vehicles waiting to overtake, I pootle along, waiting until I am at the front of the queue, then start watching out for a place to overtake safely.

Please understand that I am not talking about overtaking a group of cyclists or any other vehicle in a traffic jam (what would be the point anyway, and its likely that the cyclists are going to be overtaking/undertaking me anyway), I am talking about roads that are not jammed up with heavy traffic. The kind of roads with 60mph speed limits.

If cyclists are not riding 3-4 abreast across a lane, I can give the cyclists more space to my left as I go past and have more opportunities to overtake safely. If you are filling up the entire lane (and I have on occasions seen the entire lane and half of the lane for oncoming traffic filled), I cannot pass you with the level of safety and the gap between you and me that I would prefer to have.

Cyclists riding one behind the other without break can form what needs to be considered as one entity when it comes to overtaking, and that line of cyclists can be far longer than any motorised vehicle on the road. Is it completely unreasonable to mention that something like this is extremely difficult to overtake in a safe manner?

Cyclists riding one behind the other without break can form what needs to be considered as one entity when it comes to overtaking, and that line of cyclists can be far longer than any motorised vehicle on the road. Is it completely unreasonable to mention that something like this is extremely difficult to overtake in a safe manner?

How often does this happen?

Perhaps you need to learn some patience for the very rare occasions that you encounter a stream of cyclists longer than a juggernaut.

You still have an expectation that you must overtake, simply because they are cyclists, not something you seem to do with drivers.
Do not overtake until it is safe.
A 60 mph road should only be driven at 60 mph when safe, it is not a target.
If it is difficult to overtake, therefore unsafe, don't do it. How hard is that to understand?

I have on occasions seen the entire lane and half of the lane for oncoming traffic filled

I've never seen that before, which road is it, you could probably trace the club and raise it with them, that sounds very unusual, cyclists have a natural aversion to cycling on the wrong side of the road because it can get hurty.

I waved an ambulance through the other night. Fuckers were just sitting on my wheel making me deaf, presumably waiting for the truck/car in the other lane to make a gap large enough for them. I managed to do so without wobbling. I haz mad skillz? I can haz driver lizenz?

I pulled right over to the kerb once with 10 trainee cyclists to let a fire engine past
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Is this a troll thread?
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Shouldn't it be merged with something?

Your intentions were good, Mrs Earthloop, and you raise some valid points, but this is a tough crowd to impart knowledge to (even at the best of times). You'll find a lot of people here riding their bikes every day to commute and they'll be out again on the weekend just for the sheer enjoyment of it. I'm not saying we know best but I'd say the vast majority of us know what's best for us in terms of staying safe and staying alive. We don't have a death wish.

I know the tinted window thing is a red herring but it's an easy fix if it's a genuine concern (and it sounds like it is in your case). Your case is just one very specific danger/scenario that most of us cyclists have to consider and contend with every day. All vehicles have different blindspots which is why we exercise caution/ride in the primary position/etc.

Blind Spots

[]From about a cars length away at the rear, until you are level with the front side windows, you are invisible to the drivers.
[] Most importantly, when you decide to draft off the left side of me, I don't even know you are there unless I have a passenger that tells me about it.

These are not a blindspots. These are badly set up wing mirrors.

Why is it so important to 'identify' cyclists (or any other road user for that matter.)..... but the insistence on identification over 'mere' observation and anticipation seems really strange, is it only once something has been identified ("That's a tree in the road!") that action can be taken? Do people not slow down if they don't know what that thing in front of them is?

I have seen quite a few cyclists (in dark clothing at night) around our part of the world that are appear to be going out of their way to disguise themselves as a bush swaying in the breeze. My anticipation of what a bush is likely to do and what a cyclist is likely to do are quite different, so knowing that the dark shape ahead of me is a cyclist and not a bush is quite helpful.

If you are coming towards me, it is useful to know if you are cyclist or a pedestrian, cos if you are a pedestrian you are unlikely to reach me as quickly as if you are a cyclist.

If you are going in the same direction as me, if you are a pedestrian, unless you slip and fall into the road or dash out into the road, its unlikely that I'm going to have to change course. If its a cyclist, I'm going to need to move over to give you room, and I would like as much time as possible to see if this is going to be possible at the time I'm likely to reach you, or whether I need to be modifying my speed etc etc.

Identifying what something is is essential to anticipating the things actions or lack thereof, and making a decision as to what I am going to do.

I have seen quite a few cyclists (in dark clothing at night)

so what exactly is your problem?

Identifying what something is is essential to anticipating the things actions or lack thereof, and making a decision as to what I am going to do.

Ah the old perspecuity rather than conspicuity point.
So ride central, look back and wear black
Sorted

Should this be renamed

**POV driver who's incapable of driving?

**does she keep finding bushes in the middle of the road?

does she live in the wild west with tumbleweed all over the roads?

You would be wrong. 90% of cyclists also drive - this is proportionally greater than the general population.
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good stat, i don't know that.

Mrs Earthloop - thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. On a couple of things I outright disagree, like lane positioning.

it *is *the driver's responsibility to only overtake when it is safe to do so, but if a cyclist believes it is not safe to overtake him he is within his right to position himself such that he can't be overtaken rather than relying on the driver reaching the same conclusion. it's simple self preservation and we have all plenty of experience of drivers whose judgement is wrong on the question of whether it is safe to pass. as for people wobbling because they are signalling, you won't find them on here!

But I do believe that being more visible is preferable. it seems like a no brainer to me but for some reason is a hotly debated topic.

With the long lines of cyclists strung out one in front of one another with no space to overtake, i agree if you are talking about rural roads (it's not an issue in the city). because the roads are not straight enough to see far enough ahead to pass 10 bikes at once. However i don't condone road rage in cases where the cyclists fail to do this!

but if a cyclist believes it is not safe to overtake him he is within his right to position himself such that he can't be overtaken rather than relying on the driver reaching the same conclusion. it's simple self preservation and we have all plenty of experience of drivers whose judgement is wrong on the question of whether it is safe to pass.

I understand your view on this completely. You do not want motorist to overtake you in an unsafe manner.

I do not want to overtake cyclists in an unsafe manner. Very often though, cyclists who position themselves in such a way as to prevent me from overtaking them safely, leave me in a position where I just want to get away from that particular cyclist. Sometimes this can be accomplished by altering my route and travelling on a different road, a mechanism that I use when stuck behind erratic drivers that I deem too risky to overtake too. Sometimes this is not possible, and I have to travel many miles behind said road user.

I do believe that I have a better understanding of the conditions needed for me to safely overtake in whatever vehicle I am driving at the time. Between the two I drive regularly, one needs far more space to the right of the cyclist than the other to safely overtake, and the other needs more clear road ahead.

I am not in any way suggesting that cyclists should ride in the gutters, and not move more than 6 inches into the roadway or anything like that. I am talking about cyclists who 'hog' the right hand side of a lane actively preventing other road users from overtaking them safely.

i agree if you are talking about rural roads

I am indeed

Sometimes this is not possible, and I have to travel many miles behind said road user.

Sometimes you get stuck behind cyclists for several miles? What road is this?

I do not want to overtake cyclists in an unsafe manner. Very often though, cyclists who position themselves in such a way as to prevent me from overtaking them safely, leave me in a position where I just want to get away from that particular cyclist.

Are you saying you're a bit impatient to wait a few minutes till it's safe to do so?

If you're perfectly happy to sit in a queue for 15 minutes during rush hour, surely 2 minutes driving at 12mph wouldn't be a problem.

Sometimes you get stuck behind cyclists for several miles? What road is this?

^Clearly one that you don't know.

Mrs Earthloop, something you should know: this forum is full of angry teenagers who rarely leave london and relish the opportunity to find every possible fault with a post such as yours, and argue with it ad absurdam, repeating themselves and ignoring all your corrections/ explanations. Personally I think you have covered most criticisms, but this thread will likely run and run. They love this stuff.

^Clearly one that you don't know.

Mrs Earthloop, something you should know: this forum is full of angry teenagers who rarely leave london and relish the opportunity to find every possible fault with a post such as yours, and argue with it ad absurdam, repeating themselves and ignoring all your corrections/ explanations. Personally I think you have covered most criticisms, but this thread will likely run and run. They love this stuff.

and it is populated by older cyclists who think that motorists who believe they have god given right to pass a cyclist as if the cyclist had a lesser right to the road than they do one of the fundamental flaws of the road user hierarchy currently in vogue

but she doesn't.

^Clearly one that you don't know.

Quite.That's why I asked.

I understand your view on this completely. You do not want motorist to overtake you in an unsafe manner.

I do not want to overtake cyclists in an unsafe manner.

if its a cyclist, I'm going to need to move over to give you room,

I am not in any way suggesting that cyclists should ride in the gutters, and not move more than 6 inches into the roadway

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Quite.That's why I asked.

Perhaps I misjudged, but there was a challenge inherent in the way you asked the question.

I think you should commute on a bicycle for a fair period of time before call cyclists out for things that you would understand completely if you cycled.

Are you saying you're a bit impatient to wait a few minutes till it's safe to do so?

No, I am very happy to sit behind a cyclist, with plenty of space between us, for as long as it takes for an opportunity to arise for me to overtake the cyclist safely. I'm happy to do this for however long it takes.

What I'm not happy about, and what causes me to become impatient and frustrated with a cyclist, is when a cyclist positions him/herself on the road in such a way that it is not possible to overtake the cyclist in a safe manner. Those times when the cyclist could have been safely overtaken if the cyclist had positioned themselves a foot or two to the left of the position they are taking. The first couple of times there is a missed opportunity due solely to cyclist position, I pretty much go "Oh well, he/she probably hasn't realised, isn't aware", but when there are opportunities to overtake safely, every few minutes for 15-20 minutes or so, I start to think the cyclist is taking the piss and being rather inconsiderate to the rest of us.
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If you're perfectly happy to sit in a queue for 15 minutes during rush hour, surely 2 minutes driving at 12mph wouldn't be a problem.

Thankfully I seldom need to drive during rush hour :) If I were commuting into London on a daily basis, it would be by train, not by car.

Perhaps I misjudged, but there was a challenge inherent in the way you asked the question.

Not really, I'm having trouble imagining how a cyclist could delay a driver on a rural road for several miles, I've never seen that. Also, I'm mid forties and not angry. More..peckish.