Hovis's dream Burls Ti custom track

Yeah thats what I've read too. And its not just stiffness thats an issue, but also the damping properties of Ti cannot be controlled in the way carbon can. So the spring rate in the fork is "stuck".

I'm just going to get a carbon road fork, probably whatever Burls recommends, which I hope will be Ritchey WCS or Enve 2.0.

Track forks, where they are actually different from road versions, are usually built stronger and stiffer. The fork will survive, but your wrists won't. Also, the Enve track fork doesn't appear to have a brake drilling, a legal and practical necessity for road use.

Thanks for that... so if we exclude stiffness and drilling, the biggest differentiator (carbon road vs track) would be fork rake (e.g. 40-45mm odd compared to 30-38mm odd). So as long as Hovis has Burls design for that in mind, no real difference from a handling perspective?

Found a bit more regarding rake here: http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2007/05/trail-fork-rake-and-little-bit-of.html (apologies if wandering off topic)

differentiator (carbon road vs track) would be fork rake (e.g. 40-45mm odd compared to 30-38mm odd). So as long as Hovis has Burls design for that in mind, no real difference from a handling perspective?

10mm difference in offset makes no meaningful difference in handling either, you might detect it jumping from one bike to another but after an hour you wouldn't know which one you were on. Most modern track frames sold with 30mm offset track forks will work perfectly well with 43mm offset road forks.

Ritchey WCS or Enve 2.0.

From a purely aesthetic point of view, the Enve is the only option.
The WCS does off very good VFM for it's weight though.

You reckon? I think the Ritchey looks a bit nicer tbh. The graphics seem less in your face. Having said that I've seen neither in the flesh

Whats peoples view on headset colour. Is pewter overkill?

Is pewter overkill?

No, Titanium would be overkill

^ what Mr Tester said !

Just for aesthetics, I'd rather see a curve a la Moots rather than a welded mitre

Yeah, it's that picture again

It's less for the setback, more the design of the custom Ti seatpost and frame.
The firefly frames have some really awesome stuff like that. Could be worth a look for inspiration.

Not sure why they went to all that effort and then used the fugly, poorly designed and unnecessarily heavy Thomson clamp.

Chris King are less shouty in sotto voce, Cane Creek 110 might actually be better than CK. If you really want to go nuts, consider a big head tube and use the Cane Creek 110 with a conventional 1½" bottom cup and zero stack 1⅛" top cup (the blue one in the attached pic), then you can use a tapered fork like 3T Rigida, Easton EC90, Enve etc. You get the pleasing aesthetics of an integrated upper bearing and parallel sided head tube, backwards compatibility with a non-taper fork (by fitting a ZS lower bearing) and none of the imprecise fit associated with drop-in integrated bearings.

I specc'd a 1 1/2" headtube on my fat frame. Not many tapered fat forks around (fatback). But it seemed a good idea to future proof it. Getting a cannondale lefty for it now. Which will have a standard 1/8" steerer (as it has special clamps which are a touch longer). Will probably still go 1 1/2". But I feel the 1 1/8" with nice anodized external headset cups would look nicer.

My thinking was to get a pick'n'mix headset from Hope.

Can you get integrated Ti seatposts?

The top caps used with intergrated seatposts are widely available, and offer a cm or 2 adjustment. You simply spec the correct trube diameter for your seat tube.

Not sure why they went to all that effort and then used the fugly, poorly designed and unnecessarily heavy ENVE clamp.

ftfy .. :)

If you're looking at Ti seatposts then also take time to look at PMP Italy products, they make some nice ones in different offsets .. good enough for Super Mario to ride etc..

ftfy .. :)

I was talking about the seat post clamp on the frame, not the rail clamp on the post

No, Titanium would be overkill

Heh. I don't see the point in having the cups made of Ti, espec considering they are heavier that way.

I'm leaning towards the pewter colour, or black if I'm feeling boring.

Bike whisperer has done my drawing now based on my fit. Ive also had a word with Justin to say I want slightly beefier than usual downtube so it doesnt flex under my T-Rex legs.

Annoyingly (although needs to be confirmed) it might not be possible to have the wishbone drilled for a brake. Would be useful as I will want to whack a mudguard (crud roadracer) on it for winter use. Might be possible to botch one on anyway using zip ties around the wishbone though.

Heh. I don't see the point in having the cups made of Ti, espec considering they are heavier that way.

I'm leaning towards the pewter colour, or black if I'm feeling boring.

I think the point is to have titanium everywhere. Pewter looks nice although I've never seen it IRL.

Heh. I don't see the point in having the cups made of Ti, espec considering they are heavier that way.

I'm leaning towards the pewter colour, or black if I'm feeling boring.

Pewters nice. Personally I love the Gunsmoke colour from Hope. But as long as the collor and cuffs match...

Another thing to note about CK Ti headset in a Ti frame apart from aesthetic overkill:
I have heard reports that these can creak.
Also weigh more as Hovis said.

Bike whisperer has done my drawing now based on my fit. Ive also had a word with Justin to say I want slightly beefier than usual downtube so it doesnt flex under my T-Rex legs.

Annoyingly (although needs to be confirmed) it might not be possible to have the wishbone drilled for a brake. Would be useful as I will want to whack a mudguard (crud roadracer) on it for winter use. Might be possible to botch one on anyway using zip ties around the wishbone though.

Is it possible to have this Bi-axially ovalised* to achieved nice joins to the BB and headtube. Marketing blurb, says this makes things stiffer. I'm not totally convinced. But it looks cool.

(wider horizontally when meeting the horizontal BB tube, and wider vertically when meeting the vertical head tube).

I've just confirmed a 49.6mm ID headtube for my Ti frame. Means I can use all sorts of forks. Simply by selecting the correct parts of the HopeTech Pick'n'Mix headset system.

Is it possible to have this Bi-axially ovalised* to achieved nice joins to the BB and headtube. Marketing blurb, says this makes things stiffer. I'm not totally convinced. But it looks cool.

(wider horizontally when meeting the horizontal BB tube, and wider vertically when meeting the vertical head tube).

I've just confirmed a 49.6mm ID headtube for my Ti frame. Means I can use all sorts of forks. Simply by selecting the correct parts of the HopeTech Pick'n'Mix headset system.

Im not sure what you mean by biaxially ovalised, have you got any pictures?

What frame do you have again smallfurry?

do wishbone seat stay have any advantage or is it just aesthetics? And I am sure I have seen wishbone with brakes but in steel ..

For Ti the wishbone needs to be a fair bit bigger, see bjammins one below

And I want it purely for aesthetic purposes. As for ride characteristics, I think thats one for mdcc. But I have read that it can make the ride a bit harsher.

Don't ask mdcc, he hates wishbones.

Im not sure what you mean by biaxially ovalised, have you got any pictures?

What frame do you have again smallfurry?

The down tube is squashed into an oval shape at each end. The term biaxial comes from the fact that each end is squashed at a right angle to the other. The BB end is squashed into an oval with line of max diameter in line with the BB shell. The headtube end is squashed into an oval with line of max diameter in line with the headtube shell. It allows your downtube to be fatter than the headtube and BB, yet still be wielded to these without wrapping.

I'm waiting on Triton to get started on a fatframe for me. Once you start involving yourself in the details of these things it can get crazy complex. I've calaculated where best to place the rack mounts to be able to fit a rack over the fat tyres, where I'd like my brake hoses tied for best routing, what headtube angle works best for both sus and rigid fork, how I'm going to get my chain past the massive rear tyre................gets headache

For Ti the wishbone needs to be a fair bit bigger, see bjammins one below
And I want it purely for aesthetic purposes. As for ride characteristics, I think thats one for mdcc. But I have read that it can make the ride a bit harsher.

I guess two small diameter tubes beside each other. Will flex more in the vertical, and less laterally. Than a single tube of equally average stiffness.

The actual real life size of this effect?

Fuck knows.