Olympics 2012 track cycling

But it's still cheating.

Where do you draw the line?

about an inch in front of what I'm willing to do

But it's still cheating.

Where do you draw the line?

Its gamemanship, it isn't pretty but it happens everywhere in sport. Certainly no worse than the French fielding Bauge or Bourgain, or ze Germans with Forsteman

The simple answer is that the magnitude of the cheating should (and does) carry different levels of sanction.

In football we wouldn't expect someone to get sent off for pulling a shirt in the centre circle, we wouldn't expect an outfield player to get a life ban for stopping a shot with their hands, but we might expect a life ban for someone convicted of systematic match fixing.

To deal with bans for doping, I don't agree that a life ban is the sole sanction. Surely there are degrees of cheating, even with penumbra of doping?

What I would say is that under the present regime there is insufficient deterrent for certain offences. It seems ridiculous that Contador will be racing again in a few weeks.

Its gamemanship, it isn't pretty but it happens everywhere in sport. Certainly no worse than the French fielding Bauge or Bourgain, or ze Germans with Forsteman

This is wrong. Why shouldn't Forstermann ride the MTB?

They should make him ride the MTB then.

Or DQ him from the games for not trying his best. Badminton style.

Or DQ him from the games for not trying his best. Badminton style.

That was just stupid. Surely objective of Olympian is to maximise the chances of attaining best result in the competition?

Hate the format, not the players.

Heaven forbid that sport should strive for principles.

Maximising the chances of attaining the best result in a competition might also include doping, no?

So Hindes' intentional crash after messing up his start isn't cheating but missing drug tests is?

It's within the rules of the track, so correct.

I'm not sure how it works within the Olympics rules though, given they DQ'd those badminton players for not 'trying to win'. They didn't have a medal taken off them though...

To deal with bans for doping, I don't agree that a life ban is the sole sanction. Surely there are degrees of cheating, even with penumbra of doping?

What I would say is that under the present regime there is insufficient deterrent for certain offences. It seems ridiculous that Contador will be racing again in a few weeks.

His positive was for a minute amount of clenbuterol, which likely had very little effect on his performance, and nothing more.

Now we might believe that it got there via banned methods, but as it stands there is no proof and he cannot be sanctioned for that.

Gregory Bauge did not fail a drugs test, instead he was banned for procedural errors. The sanction should, therefore, fit the crime and a 12 month ban seems reasonable, especially when Yoann Offredo got the same sanction for a similar offence.

^^^^^^ O Rilly? No second chance in life for anyone ever then? Enlightening stuff....

If, as in Millars case, they 'fess up, do their time, are wholly repentant, and become active opponents of doping in all it's forms then fair enough. Give 'em another chance.

After being caught. He didn't just think "oh shit I better come clean"

But it's still cheating.
Where do you draw the line?

Within the rules. Outside the rules.

I would've thought that's pretty bloody clear.

After being caught. He didn't just think "oh shit I better come clean"

Yeah, but remember his subconscious made him keep those syringes because deep down his subconscious wanted him to get caught, so it is all ok see?

They should make him ride the MTB then.
Or DQ him from the games for not trying his best. Badminton style.

Would you say the same of the Team GB "fall"?

Luckily the MTB is after the track so it's irrelevant for him.

His positive was for a minute amount of clenbuterol, which likely had very little effect on his performance, and nothing more.

Now we might believe that it got there via banned methods, but as it stands there is no proof and he cannot be sanctioned for that.

Gregory Bauge did not fail a drugs test, instead he was banned for procedural errors. The sanction should, therefore, fit the crime and a 12 month ban seems reasonable, especially when Yoann Offredo got the same sanction for a similar offence.

Weren't you the one claiming that clenbuterol positive actually saved his arse from testing positive for blood doping?

I was citing Michael Ashenden on that.

Gregory Bauge did not fail a drugs test, instead he was banned for procedural errors. The sanction should, therefore, fit the crime and a 12 month ban seems reasonable, especially when Yoann Offredo got the same sanction for a similar offence.

Missing a test is or should be viewed as failing a test.

Missing three of them cannot be put down to administrative error. It's not like he has a full time job shuffling papers that he forgot about his dope control.

Missing a test is or should be viewed as failing a test.

Didn't Cav miss a test last year?

#manxtrolling

The simple answer is that the magnitude of the cheating should (and does) carry different levels of sanction.

In football we wouldn't expect someone to get sent off for pulling a shirt in the centre circle, we wouldn't expect an outfield player to get a life ban for stopping a shot with their hands, but we might expect a life ban for someone convicted of systematic match fixing.

To deal with bans for doping, I don't agree that a life ban is the sole sanction. Surely there are degrees of cheating, even with penumbra of doping?

What I would say is that under the present regime there is insufficient deterrent for certain offences. It seems ridiculous that Contador will be racing again in a few weeks.

+1 I think I agree with the sentiment here. A blanket ban simply ignores the nuances of individual cases, sort of like chopping off a hand for theft, however petty.

Worse is that Contador sooms to be perceived as the return of a conquering hero. I even read in an anti-Wiggins rant in the clinic after his blog on the work he has put into his TT technique: this why I love Contador, as least he doesn't come out with all this bullshit.

Amusingly it was about three pages into the discussion of his talking about changing his cadence and comparing him to LA (again) someone pointed out he was talking about slowing it down, specifically in the TT

Didn't Cav miss a test last year?

#manxtrolling

Bad weather meant the boat didn't go. Island life, can't be avoided.

#baittaken

Didn't Cav miss a test last year?
#manxtrolling

That's why they allow three misses before sanctions.

Miss three and you should be done.

Should cyclists who get done for drink driving be allowed to ride the Olympics?
*
#aussietrolling*

But it's still cheating.

Where do you draw the line?

It's no worse than diving in football to win a penalty. Something you should be accustomed to being an Arsenal fan :)

After being caught. He didn't just think "oh shit I better come clean"

Maybe he did,maybe he didn't. We don't know, only he does.

Should cyclists who get done for drink driving be allowed to ride the Olympics?
#aussietrolling

Fucking stupid but did it break Olympic rules?

That Aussie rower has to pay £1400 for his drunken antics..

#noobfailstohandlepints