Pearson Carbon Audax Pro: A comfy, modern & fast (ish) long-distance bike

I thought about di2, but it weighs 500g more than Red (based on 2012 weights), costs £2-300 more, doesn't do very well on the could you get it fixed in the middle of nowhere at a bog standard bike shop test and the frame wasn't built to take it. Plus it's fugly (IMO) and glossy grey, not black.

Apart from that it's fine ;)

Oh also if I do get Red I'm getting the 2012 front mech. Definitely.

For the intended purpose of this bike I'd go Ultegra Di2, significantly cheaper than "new" Red, which you'll want for the front shift issue which you reference.

I don't do Audax, but my Di2 needs less adjustment/fixing/fettling than my Force did- fewer moving parts to go wrong/stretch/snap/fill up with grit.

But that's irrelevant really, Red will be lighter.

I like my Red...*

*I have ridden less than 30 miles so far.

Doesnt have the horrible graphics, is more solid, works equally well, and is cheaper....

Although Chorus would have been my first chioce.

For the intended purpose of this bike I'd go Ultegra Di2, significantly cheaper than "new" Red, which you'll want for the front shift issue which you reference.

I don't do Audax, but my Di2 needs less adjustment/fixing/fettling than my Force did- fewer moving parts to go wrong/stretch/snap/fill up with grit.

I have repeatedly heard that Shimano needs a bit less fettling than SRAM, so don't doubt you, but to be honest a lot of this comes down to bang for my bucks. I can't really afford 'new' Red and I can't afford di2 either. I can't afford DA. I reckon 2011 Red is better overall than standard Ultegra, which I could afford.

Doesnt have the horrible graphics, is more solid, works equally well, and is cheaper....

What are you basing 'more solid' on? Would be interested to know. I do prefer the Force graphics slightly. There's no stupid frog either. What is that frog about anyway?!

I am definitely still thinking about Force, but to get the black chainrings like in your picture up there you need to get 2012, which is at least £700 for a full group minus BB. When I can get the equivalent Red Black for £900 it seems worth paying the extra £200, no?

Although that's a bit of a disengenuous comparison if I'm honest, as if I got Red Black I'd be very tempted to get the 2012 front mech for better shifting and the 2012 cassette for a quieter drivetrain.

Actually the brakes aren't black enough either, I suppose I could get 2011 Force with a 2012 chainset and spend the money I saved on a pair of these ;)

I have these, look nice and weight not a lot.
Although apparently my enjoyment of them will wear thin soon enough...

I quite like the grey bits of force, makes it a bit more interesting than just having everything blacked out.

Ultegra Di2 "shifting kit" is 999 Euro from the big German web bike shops, that's ~£785 in proper money.

Or get Force for £399.

I have these, look nice and weight not a lot.
Although apparently my enjoyment of them will wear thin soon enough...

I've read mixed things. I don't think I'd want to swap the brakes out unless I thought they'd perform better than the default groupset ones, which teh TRP 960s are meant to.

I quite like the grey bits of force, makes it a bit more interesting than just having everything blacked out.

I don't really understand the appeal in grey bike parts, I could live with them I suppose. I have a grey bedroom that I'm happy with, but it's 'mid lead' not 'SRAM grey' ;)

Ultegra Di2 "shifting kit" is 999 Euro from the big German web bike shops, that's ~£785 in proper money.

Or get Force for £399.

Have you got links to these?

I have the R960s. They work just fine. And they're black. From what I hear, the PX ones only tick one of those boxes. I only bought them because my groupset acquisition happened pre Red Black, but I now feel that it would have been too black so happy with the path I took, grey chainrings and all.

Your keenness to swap out the front derailleur on your prospective Red acquisition to me seems pointless - reports may say it's 'better', be that stiffer or with an improved shifting action, but I have had precisely zero issues with my set-up so feel any improvement to be unimportant.

Extending that - having bikes with both Red and Force, I struggle to feel the difference between the two of them. Force does just fine, wins at bang for buck and uses less exotic components where it counts, no doubt ticking a 'longevity' box in a spreadsheet somewhere.

Have you seen my Giant since I put SRAM on it? Potentially similar to your (initial, deep-wheeled) vision for this build. Since I swapped out the pedals for Keo blades though, is stealthier than I want.

If you are indeed going to ride this bike you are aware ot the cost of replacing a Red cassette.

Use Ultegra or Dura Ace cassette and KMC chain, MOAR BETTA.

Force- get from Fudge.

Ultegra Di2: Shift Kit Full Group

Or get Force for £399.

link pls

edit 2 slow

edit #2, whos fudge

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=168007

missing quite a bit
http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=105835

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=168007

that's nonsense, even picking only apex bits and the cheapest options its over £500

£680 was the cheapest I found when I was looking, for a full Force group.

fudge gives me 490 with an apex crankset, more like 590 with rivals

that's nonsense, even picking only apex bits and the cheapest options its over £500

It's nonsense only if you want brakes and cranks from within the group, which I have never considered to be a priority.

Difference in listed weight between a 2011 GXP complete Red and complete Force groupset is 179g .. so based on your £200 difference in cost that's £1.11 for every gram saved.

The savings are :

31g on the crank
23g on the shifters
25g on the rear mech
30g on the front mech
55g on the cassette
15g on the calipers

Like Dammit I think it's nonsense picking a complete group .. but that's my opinion

why do sram groups look so nice... i have parts already but...

Right. This thread has made me finally get around to buying a new groupset! You persuasive so-and-so's.

Fudges have offered me SRAM Red Black cranks (2011) and Red shifters (2011) with Force front and rear mechs (2011) and a Force GXP BB (2011) and a Force 12-27 cassette (2011) for £682.50. I'm keeping my existing Tektro brakes and getting a Rival chain from CRC.

If that's not a good deal, I don't know what is?!

Presumably Dammit will shortly inform the rest of y'all where to get a better value mix-and-match Red/Force combination. :-)